Vote on who has the better resume Jones or Spinks - Page 3

ironchamp · 01-17-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor

i would have to say spinks.

One consideration would be the fact that spinks established lineage at both light heavyweight and heavyweight, leaving nothing to argue over in these weight classes.

Jones never really did sew up any weight class that he fought in.

+1

Jorodz · 01-17-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Bujia

More scalps, perhaps, as he had more fights. However, at the top of the heap for many spots down Spinks's opposition blows his out of the water. Jones really only contends with his wins over Hopkins and Toney, and Spinks's wins over Gregory and Braxton hold up quite well.

exactly.

jones has let's say around 20 or so B or C level titlests, or former titlests on his resume (mccallum, johnson, etc.).

two B+ level victories over ruiz (generous yes but a BIG size difference), and virgil hill (who could have been A level had he been prime)

he has only 2 A level victories (let's go with HOF level to be objective): toney and hopkins. Now putting aside weight or age, those are very good wins.

spinks has fewer B or C level wins, I'll put Cooney and Davis

he has 3 VERY solid B+ victories over muhammad, lopez and johnson

but he does has 3 A level victories: 2 over holmes and 1 over Qawi

When i look at him, they're close but while jones has much more "filler" and lower tier titlests spinks' top wins are just plain better. i guess it depends on what you favour

overall, i give it to jones because, even without the A level victories spinks has, he has soooo many solid wins over underrated comp that he might edge it.

Commando · 01-17-2011, 01:33 PM

To be honest I didn't think Spinks would win this....but I can definitely see now the reason as to why Spinks could rate over Jones.

But what if we didn't include Spinks second win over Holmes? I mean if we don't include that, then I don't see any reason at all to rate him over Jones.

Their best wins look like this

Spinks

Light Heavyweight

Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Marvin Johnson
Yaqui Lopez
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad

Heavyweight

Larry Holmes x2
Gerry Cooney

Jones

Middleweight

Bernard Hopkins
Jorge Castro

Super Middleweight

James Toney

Light Heavyweight

Antonio Tarver
Virgil Hill
Montell Griffin

Heavyweight

John Ruiz

Jorodz · 01-17-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commando

To be honest I didn't think Spinks would win this....but I can definitely see now the reason as to why Spinks could rate over Jones.

But what if we didn't include Spinks second win over Holmes? I mean if we don't include that, then I don't see any reason at all to rate him over Jones.

Their best wins look like this

Spinks

Light Heavyweight

Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Marvin Johnson
Yaqui Lopez
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad

Heavyweight

Larry Holmes x2
Gerry Cooney

Jones

Middleweight

Bernard Hopkins
Jorge Castro

Super Middleweight

James Toney

Light Heavyweight

Antonio Tarver
Virgil Hill
Montell Griffin

Heavyweight

John Ruiz

true and i think jones' resume is getting undersold on this thread but twice beating a top 5 all time heavyweight, once CLEARLY and then dominating the second best era of light heavies ever, that goes a long way

Unforgiven · 01-17-2011, 02:16 PM

I think Spinks has the better resume, but Jones-Toney might well be the best win.

ironchamp · 01-17-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commando

To be honest I didn't think Spinks would win this....but I can definitely see now the reason as to why Spinks could rate over Jones.

But what if we didn't include Spinks second win over Holmes? I mean if we don't include that, then I don't see any reason at all to rate him over Jones.

Their best wins look like this

Spinks

Light Heavyweight

Dwight Muhammad Qawi
Marvin Johnson
Yaqui Lopez
Eddie Mustafa Muhammad

Heavyweight

Larry Holmes x2
Gerry Cooney

Jones

Middleweight

Bernard Hopkins
Jorge Castro

Super Middleweight

James Toney

Light Heavyweight

Antonio Tarver
Virgil Hill
Montell Griffin

Heavyweight

John Ruiz

Spinks is winning because in his day he was the top dog at LHW. He beat some really good fighters in the process and more importantly he cleaned out the division while establishing lineage. There were no loose ends when he left. Afterwards he moves up to Heavyweight after he rejected Hagler's offer to come down to 160 and Marvin refused to come up to 175. He then went on to dethrone the champ.

Jones beating Ruiz was special to the extent that he came up in weight all the way from 160 over the years to take a piece of the Heavyweight title. However if we put it in persepective it's like Spinks moving up in weight and beating Greg Page instead of Larry Holmes. If Jones went up to beat Lennox Lewis who was clearly at the tail end of his career then his win would be a wash with Spink's HW win.

Jones has the depth, that is clear given how many more fights he's had but Spinks has better quality wins.

Minotauro · 01-17-2011, 02:25 PM

Spinks resume is better more quality, better opposition in their prime and was lineal at both his weights.

Senya13 · 01-17-2011, 02:28 PM

Comparing a win over Qawi with win over Hopkins and Toney is absurd. Both were ten times more skilled and clever than Qawi ever was. Holmes a Top 5 all-time hw? Gimme a break. With his resume?

Jorodz · 01-17-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senya13

Comparing a win over Qawi with win over Hopkins and Toney is absurd. Both were ten times more skilled and clever than Qawi ever was. Holmes a Top 5 all-time hw? Gimme a break. With his resume?

skilled yes but the comparison was made as objectively as possible, using HOF status. it may not mean a ton but it's a start. qawi was a brilliant LHW and cruiser and spinks' win was tremendous

holmes is a top 5 heavy, i was gonna say top 3 but figured i'd be conservative

Senya13 · 01-17-2011, 02:55 PM

Using the ridiculous standards used by IBHOF for comparing two fighters is quite clever. Fighting the has-beens or never-were's and losing to his best opponents is a sign of brilliance indeed.
Who are the other two if Holmes is a top 3?

Jorodz · 01-17-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senya13

Using the ridiculous standards used by IBHOF for comparing two fighters is quite clever. Fighting the has-beens or never-were's and losing to his best opponents is a sign of brilliance indeed.
Who are the other two if Holmes is a top 3?

1)i'm a little confused by your first statement. who is fighting has beens and never weres? and who lost to his best opponents?

2)ali and louis

Unforgiven · 01-17-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senya13

Comparing a win over Qawi with win over Hopkins and Toney is absurd. Both were ten times more skilled and clever than Qawi ever was. Holmes a Top 5 all-time hw? Gimme a break. With his resume?

Qawi of '83 was a way more accomplished fighter than Hopkins of '93. He was also the champion of the world at that weight.
Qawi's record is very good.
I don't know exactly how you're measuring skills and cleverness .... ?
How do you do that ?

PowerPuncher · 01-17-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

Qawi of '83 was a way more accomplished fighter than Hopkins of '93. He was also the champion of the world at that weight.
Qawi's record is very good.
I don't know exactly how you're measuring skills and cleverness .... ?
How do you do that ?

He'd achieved more at that stage, Hopkins would go on to achieve far more and actually had more fights under his belt. In terms of ability '93 Hopkins gets talked down but there is little evidence he was far from his prime

Qawi was a fantastic fighter, but at the end of the day he was a 5'5 LHW taking ona 6'3 boxer with an excellent jab. He was always going to be massively handicaped against the better rangier opponents at LHW so for me this isn't quite the massive win its made out to be

TBooze · 01-17-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senya13

Gans-Langford and Greb-Walker weren't viewed as superfights by contemporary newspapers. Unsure about Robinson-Gavilan.

Walker was very famous, Greb very well respected. Gans/Langford too were two very respected fighters. Robinson was one of the ten biggest sportsman in the world at that time.

In the sense of the modern superfight, of course they got no where near the publicity. But contemporary newspapers of the time, had a a lot more ink for boxing than the modern era. These fights would of got their share of that, but unlike the modern superfights, there would of not been the six months (some six years!!!) of build up.

El Bujia · 01-17-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commando

To be honest I didn't think Spinks would win this....but I can definitely see now the reason as to why Spinks could rate over Jones.

Ooooooohhh, that's gotta sting.

View Poll Results: Vote!
Spinks	20	55.56%
Jones	14	38.89%
Addie, is the most overrated movie still guesser in the history of GTMSB	2	5.56%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

01-17-2011, 01:33 PM	#33
Commando Trollin' ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Nilbog Posts: 1,374 vCash: 500	Re: Vote on who has the better resume Jones or Spinks To be honest I didn't think Spinks would win this....but I can definitely see now the reason as to why Spinks could rate over Jones. But what if we didn't include Spinks second win over Holmes? I mean if we don't include that, then I don't see any reason at all to rate him over Jones. Their best wins look like this Spinks Light Heavyweight Dwight Muhammad Qawi Marvin Johnson Yaqui Lopez Eddie Mustafa Muhammad Heavyweight Larry Holmes x2 Gerry Cooney Jones Middleweight Bernard Hopkins Jorge Castro Super Middleweight James Toney Light Heavyweight Antonio Tarver Virgil Hill Montell Griffin Heavyweight John Ruiz
Top

01-17-2011, 02:16 PM	#35
Unforgiven Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13,142 vCash: 1000	Re: Vote on who has the better resume Jones or Spinks I think Spinks has the better resume, but Jones-Toney might well be the best win.
Top

01-17-2011, 02:25 PM	#37
Minotauro Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: London Posts: 2,886 vCash: 1000	Re: Vote on who has the better resume Jones or Spinks Spinks resume is better more quality, better opposition in their prime and was lineal at both his weights.
Top

01-17-2011, 02:28 PM	#38
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,300 vCash: 1210	Re: Vote on who has the better resume Jones or Spinks Comparing a win over Qawi with win over Hopkins and Toney is absurd. Both were ten times more skilled and clever than Qawi ever was. Holmes a Top 5 all-time hw? Gimme a break. With his resume?
Top

01-17-2011, 02:55 PM	#40
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,300 vCash: 1210	Re: Vote on who has the better resume Jones or Spinks Using the ridiculous standards used by IBHOF for comparing two fighters is quite clever. Fighting the has-beens or never-were's and losing to his best opponents is a sign of brilliance indeed. Who are the other two if Holmes is a top 3?
Top