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Old 01-18-2011, 09:21 PM   #1
Hydraulix
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Default Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

It seemed to me that Floyd lacked self confidence. I personally think that Floyd could have done much better if he'd put his mind to it. Ali didn't do well against inside swarmers, but Floyd didn't put together combinations, cut the ring, work the body, or do anything effective. In my opinion this fight should have been much better, but like the Liston fight, Floyd was beaten before the fight even took place.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

I think Floyd got caught up in the 'Win This For America' scenario.

Floyd put too much pressure on himself.
Again, in Las Vegas, he fought the wrong fight.
Coupled with a bad back, and no respect for Muhammad Ali's punching power.

The Las Vegas Athletic Commission, never wanted Floyd back after that fight.

Had Floyd won that fight, he would have fought George Chuvalo in Madison Square Garden, New York
for a Patterson vs. Chuavlo II 'Title Fight', in 1966.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

I watched the 1972 fight today as well. At 37, Floyd did much better. He threw a lot more punches and showed more heart.

He had a bad back in 1965 during the Ali fight? :(
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Floyd Patterson wrenched his lower back in the 1st Round versus Ali.

He suffered the same type of injury versus Tod Herring in May 1965.

His cornermen were giving him therapy and stretching his back in-between rounds.

Muhammad Ali was going to give Floyd Patterson a rematch in April 1967, but
the Nevada State Athleitc Commission would not sanction the bout.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

I know that Ali is open for left hooks because he fights with his hands down, and Floyd had a swift, underrated left hook. I think the bad back and lack of self confidence played a part in Floyd's horrible performance.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Wrong fight at the wrong time for Floyd.

He should have let George Chuvalo fight Muhammad Ali first.
And fought Ali, in Madison Square Garden, later in 1966.
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:58 AM   #7
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Floyd was aggressive, but not a swarmer in the Frazier or Chuvalo mould. He wouldn't take 2-3 punches just to get in one of his own. Furthermore he couldn't afford to against a 20+ lbs heavier Ali. His strategy wasn't actually to press Ali, because he had little reason think he would be succesful where Liston had failed. The strategy was to make Ali lead and try to counter. This wasn't badly thought out, since Ali's low hands theoretically could leave him vulnerable to quick counters.

But this was Ali at his sharpest. Floyd's pre-fight comments had angered him and he also had something to prove after the controversy sorrounding the two Liston fights. He was just too fast, too sharp, too big and too smart for Floyd.

As for Floyd's back; the first time you can see his corner working on it is after rd 7. The camera looks in on his corner after rd 5 and the commentator says that Floyd looks fine. Floyd said it went in rd 5, but I think rd 6 more likely. He takes a terrible beating in that round and with his leaned forward stance much of the impact will carry back to the spine. That together with his attempt at bobbing and weaving...

Actually, he may have felt some pain after missing that big hook in rd 5 and then had it aggravated after taking all that punishment in the next round.

It should also be noted that Dundee has said that Ali's jabs at that time gave his sparring partners back problems. They would catch the jab high up on the head and then feel the impact in the back and the neck.

Last edited by Bokaj; 01-19-2011 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Patterson of the second Ingo fight would've given Ali a much tougher fight, although he'd not have won. I have no doubt. Just like I have no doubt that he wouldn't ruthlessly destroyed Ellis if he were in his prime, taking it out of the judges' hands.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:07 AM   #9
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Patty took the '65 title fight for the money against Ali. Patty knew all along that Ali was too big, fast and powerful for him. All Patty did in 1965 was a take a systematic beating for 12 rds with Ali... And, Patty's crap about a hurt back was a friggin' excuse so he could quit with some grace within 15 rds by saying he was injured... Ali had him beaten...

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Old 01-19-2011, 06:45 AM   #10
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Angry Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Patty took the '65 title fight for the money against Ali. Patty knew all along that Ali was too big, fast and powerful for him. All Patty did in 1965 was a take a systematic beating for 12 rds with Ali... And, Patty's crap about a hurt back was a friggin' excuse so he could quit with some grace within 15 rds by saying he was injured... Ali had him beaten...

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Old 01-19-2011, 07:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hydraulix View Post
I watched the 1972 fight today as well. At 37, Floyd did much better. He threw a lot more punches and showed more heart.

He had a bad back in 1965 during the Ali fight? :(
I agree with the poster above,who states that Floyd got absorbed into the "doing it for America" scenario. That alongside facing a Muhammad Ali who was coming into his awesome prime. It is oft stated that Muhammad allowed himself to be used by the Nation of Islam. In the same sense,Floyd was used by the establishment who wanted a white,black,or even purple with blue spots,hope to put the 'uppity Clay' in his place. The most pitiful thing I heard about all this,was that before the bout,Frank Sinatra told Floyd that he,and a lot of others wanted him to beat Ali,and that he COULD beat him. After the fight was over,Floyd went to Sinatra's suite because he felt a compulsion to apologise for his poor showing. Sinatra turned his back on him. Disgraceful.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Patterson of the second Ingo fight would've given Ali a much tougher fight, although he'd not have won. I have no doubt.
You should have.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:24 AM   #13
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
You should have.
...And yet I don't.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:08 AM   #14
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
...And yet I don't.
That's why I'm here to teach.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson V. Muhammad Ali (1965)

Floyd Patterson Fun Fact,,,,

At he end of 1963,,,,,,,the Blacks in Sports Progress Group.

Voted Floyd Patterson as the 1963 Black sports person that they wish would just,,,,,,,,
'go away'.
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