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Old 01-20-2011, 07:11 AM   #31
TBooze
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
If Spinks had defended the lineal title 10 times against duds like Tangstad would he still have been seen as the true champion? What would the worth had been, of the lineal championship in that case?

Tyson absolutely cleaned the joint out barring Witherspoon. Spinks cleaned out absolutely nothing

Lineal V Actual
It does not matter, lineage is lineage. The beauty of it, is it is black and white, there is no grey area.

Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey and Tunney all missed out fighting great waves of deserving contenders because of skin colour. Even Louis to a point missed out on a couple of interesting matches.

Marciano fought for money which meant a few less financially viable contenders were avoided. Patterson's management avoided some worthy contenders for years.

Frazier took it easy for a couple years after beating Ali...

Even Tyson after beating Spinks fought Bruno, Williams and Douglas, when the likes of Witherspoon and Ruddock would of been more intriguing, and more worthy challengers...
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:15 AM   #32
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

So is there any point in the lineal title?
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:25 AM   #33
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

Spinks was teh CHAMP cos he had LINEAR WORLD TITLE [Ring Mag belt] And never lost teh LINEAR WORLD TITLE [Ring Mag belt] - except when he got his GIFT, when Old Homer was ROBBED in teh rematch.


Tyson just had 3x paper ABC soup titles.
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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So is there any point in the lineal title?
The Heavyweight version is the defining title in not just boxing, but sports. A line that can go back to the days of Broughton and the beginnings of the modern era of the sport.

All the Classic Eight lineages, all have a history that stretches for at least a century, but of course the Heavyweight version is the most iconic.

It is starting point for anyone interested in the history of this great sport, because following the lineage leads to stories about all the greats, from those who won the title, to those who failed, and to those who never got a shot.
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:32 AM   #35
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

I understand what you're saying but if you follow the lineal title only, then you leave out on so many significant and great fights. It gives a somewhat distorted historical view

Spinks had 5 HW fights. 2 against an over the hill Holmes ripe for a fighter of Spinks' style, one against the hapless Tangstad, one against a drug and drink sodden Cooney, and finally was KO'd by Tyson. It doesn't read well does it?
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:11 AM   #36
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
I understand what you're saying but if you follow the lineal title only, then you leave out on so many significant and great fights. It gives a somewhat distorted historical view

Spinks had 5 HW fights. 2 against an over the hill Holmes ripe for a fighter of Spinks' style, one against the hapless Tangstad, one against a drug and drink sodden Cooney, and finally was KO'd by Tyson. It doesn't read well does it?
It doesn´t matter if it reads well or not. He was the champ.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:52 AM   #37
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
I understand what you're saying but if you follow the lineal title only, then you leave out on so many significant and great fights. It gives a somewhat distorted historical view

Spinks had 5 HW fights. 2 against an over the hill Holmes ripe for a fighter of Spinks' style, one against the hapless Tangstad, one against a drug and drink sodden Cooney, and finally was KO'd by Tyson. It doesn't read well does it?
History is rarely pretty, but by following a black and white standard, you help take out some of the peer pressures that can warp history. As no one other than the fighters and their connections can dictate things.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:22 AM   #38
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

Both. It needn't be "either...or".

Spinks beat the man, an incontrovertible claim. But the very organization that legitimized his title stripped him due to noncompliance.

Tyson came along to wrest Spinks' belt by defeating Spinks' successor as well as the other two existing title-holders. A perfectly legitimate route to the undisputed title.

As the introductions put it, Tyson had the belts yet Spinks had a claim.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:25 PM   #39
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

I consider it to have been a unification bout, like Tyson-Smith and Tyson-Tucker.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:20 PM   #40
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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I consider it to have been a unification bout, like Tyson-Smith and Tyson-Tucker.
Interesting way of looking at it. i like it.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:57 PM   #41
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Prior to these two meeting in 1988,if a gun was put to our heads,who would we have said the defending title holder was ? Spinks was the linear champ. The man who beat the man. To counter that,Tyson held the WBC,WBA and IBF belts,and had beaten more contenders than Spinks had during the previous two years. One one hand,traditionaly a champion can only lose his title in the ring. On the other though,Spinks had vacated the IBF bauble,in order to avoid Tony Tucker and have an easier,but more financially lucrative bout with Gerry Cooney. Thoughts ?
Tyson was the man as far back as early 87... he was thee ****IN man in 88 when he faced Spinks... & even more so 91 seconds into their fight
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:11 PM   #42
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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Tyson was the man as far back as early 87... he was thee ****IN man in 88 when he faced Spinks... & even more so 91 seconds into their fight
Yep, Tyson was the man of moment, some of us figured Spinks could outpoint him, but no, Tyson was the man. Still 91 seconds previous to this, Spinks was the Champ.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:26 PM   #43
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

Wasn't it TYSON-vs-SPINKS instead of SPINKS-vs-TYSON?

The champ's name goes first.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:33 PM   #44
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
If Spinks had defended the lineal title 10 times against duds like Tangstad would he still have been seen as the true champion? What would the worth had been, of the lineal championship in that case?
Yes he would absolutely have been the lineal champion untill he either lost or retired.

Fair has got nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Tyson absolutely cleaned the joint out barring Witherspoon. Spinks cleaned out absolutely nothing.

Lineal V Actual
Irrelevant.

Sam Langford cleaned out the heavyweight division while Jack Johnson was fighting various hyped up white hopes.

Nobody claims that Sam Langford was the real champion.
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Old 01-20-2011, 04:48 PM   #45
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Default Re: Tyson v Spinks - Who was THE champ....?

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Originally Posted by Sangria View Post
Wasn't it TYSON-vs-SPINKS instead of SPINKS-vs-TYSON?

The champ's name goes first.
With hindsight, the victors name tend to go first. Pre fight, it is the money fighter...
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