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View Poll Results: Tough call, who wins at welterweight ?
Sugar Ray Leonard 23 71.88%
Jose Napoles 9 28.13%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-13-2007, 06:30 PM   #31
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Napoles slipped against Stracey- and had a better chin than Leonard any day.
Was Leonard dropped or stopped at welterweight?.

I will concede that Naploes stoppage loss against Stracey was at the very end of his career and past his prime, just as Leonard was against Hearns in the rematch. Maybe not as past as prime as Napoles was, but both were around 4-5 years past their peak.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

The above is mainly a comparison to Manssa saying "Hearns dropped Leonard twice" which was at 168lbs while past his prime, and not to support my claim that Leonard would beat Napoles a 147lbs.

Manassa went off the railtracks, so thought I would as well.

Double stanards.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:36 PM   #33
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Was Leonard dropped or stopped at welterweight?.

I will concede that Naploes stoppage loss against Stracey was at the very end of his career and past his prime, just as Leonard was against Hearns in the rematch. Maybe not as past as prime as Napoles was, but both were around 4-5 years past their peak.
Leonard was wobbled bare times bruv, Napoles was hardcore man, he took shots off Monzon man, did Leonard do that? Nah, so den stop chattin' shit. You a chief blud...
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Hearns couldn't land even if he wanted to, he was weight drained and struggling for stamina
I'll be back later to piss over that with pretty solid evidence for good measure.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Was Leonard dropped or stopped at welterweight?.

Was Terry Marsh ever beaten in a professional bout? Well, seeing though he only fought about 27 of 'em the odds are stacked in his favour somewhat. How many world welterweight title fights did Leonard have compared with Napoles? I think Jose was legitimately floored just once in his whole career (which was a bit more than 30 fights).
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Leonard was wobbled bare times bruv, Napoles was hardcore man, he took shots off Monzon man, did Leonard do that? Nah, so den stop chattin' shit. You a chief blud...
Leonard took shots off Hagler, and showed a good chin.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Leonard took shots off Hagler, and showed a good chin.


He did have a good chin. But I can't remember him taking any really decent shots from Marvin.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

Napoles had a tendency to cut, he was a smooth boxer and had good power but Ray Leonard was one of the best amatuers I have ever seen and had great wins as a pro over Benitez,Duran and Hearns also Hagler at 160, Leonard dominated fighters at 147 and basically had the whole package, Napoles was a great fighter with wins over Curtis Cokes, Emile Griffith, Earnie Lopez was stopped by Billy Backus but beat him in a rematch...Leonard by TKO or UD
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

Leonard couldn't stand the heat coming from Napoles. He'd be forced out of his rhythm.

Ray likes a laid back pace and when he doesn't get it, becomes very uncomfortable as we all saw against Kevin Howard, and backs up boxing ineffectively as we saw with Duran, and of course with Terry Norris.

Leonard does much better with slow footed plodders and mediocre boxers where he has time to "think".

Neither am I sold on the strength of his chin. A good counter will get him in trouble as we saw with Geraldo, an arm puncher and Norris. Or even drop him as we saw with Howard and Norris.

napoles would be too relentless with pressure and leonard can only fight in spurts anyways, as we saw in Hearns 1. Napoles puts an end to the myth of the great leonard chin with a late round tko. Cuts not a factor.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
Napoles had a tendency to cut, he was a smooth boxer and had good power but Ray Leonard was one of the best amatuers I have ever seen and had great wins as a pro over Benitez,Duran and Hearns also Hagler at 160, Leonard dominated fighters at 147 and basically had the whole package, Napoles was a great fighter with wins over Curtis Cokes, Emile Griffith, Earnie Lopez was stopped by Billy Backus but beat him in a rematch...Leonard by TKO or UD
i only saw Napoles stopped once due to cuts in a title fight outside the Stracey fight-his last fight.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:45 PM   #41
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Leonard took shots off Hagler, and showed a good chin.
Hagler landed nothing of note on Leonard compared with the many wrench-like fists Monzon landed on Napoles. Granted, Leonard lasted the distance, but Napoles' chin held up brilliantly against Monzon - that sixth round was of Robinson-LaMotta VI proportions, he was really battered. Didn't really stagger either, just got forced back and was retired by his corner in between rounds.

Napoles - better chin than Leonard, arguably lesser survival skills.

Anyway, in all seriousness, Leonard wins this fight for reasons already stated.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:54 PM   #42
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Anyway, in all seriousness, Leonard wins this fight for reasons already stated.
Good pick. I probably need to see a bit more of Napoles at welterweight before making a solid prediction.

The KO3 Leonard was a "tit for tat" when you brung up Leonard getting knocked down by Hearns twice, 7 years past his last fight at welterweight (1982) and in his early 30's.

If you look back over the last page or so, my argument has been to do with punch resistance rather than an outright prediction.

You choose Leonard, after all that.
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:00 PM   #43
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Good pick. I probably need to see a bit more of Napoles at welterweight before making a solid prediction.

The KO3 Leonard was a "tit for tat" when you brung up Leonard getting knocked down by Hearns twice, 7 years past his last fight at welterweight (1982) and in his early 30's.

If you look back over the last page or so, my argument has been to do with punch resistance rather than an outright prediction.

You choose Leonard, after all that.
Do Scotsmen find it offensive when Englishmen wear kilts?
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:15 PM   #44
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Manassa
Do Scotsmen find it offensive when Englishmen wear kilts?
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:23 PM   #45
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Default Re: 147 lb tourney - LEONARD V NAPOLES

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Serious question
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