Just did a Punch stat count on Foreman-Ali

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier

And did you hear that British announcer after the fight? "ALI HAS WON!!! THE GREAT MAN HAS DONE IT! IS THIS THE GREATEST MAN ON EARTH??? THIS IS THE MOST JOYOUS SCENE IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING!!!!

David Frost always was a tit.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

One thing is for certain though, Ali never gave Goerge a rematch. Not that he was entitled to one after such a performance

I think he was a tad more entitled than Floyd Patterson vs Liston, Liston vs Clay and maybe even Ali vs Spinks.

[RoccoMarciano]

Originally Posted by janitor

Either way the answer lies in the number of times Foreman had been beyond ten rounds before this fight.

Stamina may have been been the Achilles for him. I was a bit surprised at the volume of punches Chris counted during various rounds, however, as it was a little higher than I would expect. No doubt the numbers are accurate, but it does make me want to watch the fight a bit more closely than before.

Great work, Chris

[ChrisPontius]

I have to say i started to underrate this fight a bit because of all the hype surrounding it, but having re-watched it, i really enjoyed it. Ali showed amazing heart, courage and determination by staying on the ropes while Foreman was really destroying his body. He also took quite a few hard shots to the face, but he was able to limit that to no more than a few per minute or round (something he couldn't do against Frazier).


Something else that i noticed just today that i've never seen before is that the referee hangs on the rope during on point of the fight. I heard something happened between the rounds, but never saw it during the fight. I guess i've never seen it before because it happened during one of the most exciting periods of the fight, late in round 5. Here are some pictures:

[JohnThomas1]

I've long been saying the Foreman fight is my fave Ali stouch Chris. In many ways not as good as Frazier, but i just like it, the magnitude, Foreman's aura of invincibility etc.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

I have to say i started to underrate this fight a bit because of all the hype surrounding it, but having re-watched it, i really enjoyed it.

Outside of Liston's stuff, it's probably the HW fight I watch the most. It's the ultimate Bull v Matador confrontation, and the KO is breathtaking.

I think amongst hardcore fans it became weirdly uncool to like this fight after the When We Were Kings film, for no better reason than guys who didn't know boxing came to talk about it.

[Pat_Lowe]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

I've long been saying the Foreman fight is my fave Ali stouch Chris. In many ways not as good as Frazier, but i just like it, the magnitude, Foreman's aura of invincibility etc.

Really? You take the Foreman fight over the Thrilla In Manilla? I just love the Thrilla In Manilla, the fight itself is only part of that reason, the background story of Frazier being insulted and humiliated again and it being like 40 degrees and like 100% humidity just make it the greatest heavyweight fight in my opinion. The drama to with Ali starting fast then Frazier taking over etc etc..only to be finished with Eddie Futch's "Sit down son its all over...but no one will forget what you did here". It was the best bar none to me

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe

Really? You take the Foreman fight over the Thrilla In Manilla? I just love the Thrilla In Manilla, the fight itself is only part of that reason, the background story of Frazier being insulted and humiliated again and it being like 40 degrees and like 100% humidity just make it the greatest heavyweight fight in my opinion.

I won't say that the Rumble is better than Manilla, but I do say that Manilla is hard to watch. The way Frazier is eating punches for the final third of that fight brings me no pleasure at all, I sort of watch it from behind the couch.

[Pat_Lowe]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I won't say that the Rumble is better than Manilla, but I do say that Manilla is hard to watch. The way Frazier is eating punches for the final third of that fight brings me no pleasure at all, I sort of watch it from behind the couch.

I don't like that bit that much either as I'm a much bigger fan of Frazier then Ali, I just wished he could have had a bit more stamina that night...nobody had it coming more then Ali! But its all part of the fight.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe

I don't like that bit that much either as I'm a much bigger fan of Frazier then Ali, I just wished he could have had a bit more stamina that night...nobody had it coming more then Ali! But its all part of the fight.

MORE stamina!? Don't want much, do you Pat?!

I'm with you though - i'm a big Frazier fan too, and I would have loved for him to have won the fight after all that was said. But as you say, it's a part of it and Ali certainly left Manilla with more respect for Frazier than when he arrived.

I think that Ali thought that that fight was going to be easier than New York. Makes his victory all the more extraordinary.

[Pat_Lowe]

Originally Posted by McGrain

MORE stamina!? Don't want much, do you Pat?!

I'm with you though - i'm a big Frazier fan too, and I would have loved for him to have won the fight after all that was said. But as you say, it's a part of it and Ali certainly left Manilla with more respect for Frazier than when he arrived.

I think that Ali thought that that fight was going to be easier than New York. Makes his victory all the more extraordinary.

lol just another 2 or 3 rounds worth that would have given him the win. That was one positive outcome that Ali did gain much respect for Frazier, but sadly Frazier, although he did respect Ali, just became hate filled and bitter. Sad.

I've always wondered that, the legend is that Ali spent more time fooling around with his mistress and hyping up the fight then he did training . But in the fight he was able to come back strong in the late rounds and he hardly looked like an undertrained tired fighter. I don't know if Ali was as underprepared as he was made out to be. Now Frazier on the other hand was 100% ready yet he tired, granted swarming is much a harder style to pull off but he was F**ked by the 12th.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe

lol just another 2 or 3 rounds worth

At the end of the 14th, I understand Eddie asked Frazier, "what's going on with his right?", Frazier said nothing. Eddie insists, "what's going on with his right, Joe?", and Frazier replies, "can't see em to good..." which I always feel is about as much distress as Joe would ever have allowed himself to show. The man did the right thing pulling Joe. In fact, he did a great thing, and it was years before he started protesting Joe's supposed objections. He is a good man.

But in the fight he was able to come back strong in the late rounds and he hardly looked like an undertrained tired fighter. I don't know if Ali was as underprepared as he was made out to be. Now Frazier on the other hand was 100% ready yet he tired, granted swarming is much a harder style to pull off but he was F**ked by the 12th.

I think, actually, this fight is the reason Ali is a near universal pick for the #1 slot. I much prefer Louis and would love to have him at one, but it just doesn't sit right and this fight is the reason. Ali spent his pride, then his heart, then dug into whatever concrete is underneath that with a pick and shovel to secure that win. Any doubt that it was something supernatural holding him up is dispelled when Ali faints.

What a great, great fighter.

[Pat_Lowe]

Originally Posted by McGrain

At the end of the 14th, I understand Eddie asked Frazier, "what's going on with his right?", Frazier said nothing. Eddie insists, "what's going on with his right, Joe?", and Frazier replies, "can't see em to good..." which I always feel is about as much distress as Joe would ever have allowed himself to show. The man did the right thing pulling Joe. In fact, he did a great thing, and it was years before he started protesting Joe's supposed objections. He is a good man.



I think, actually, this fight is the reason Ali is a near universal pick for the #1 slot. I much prefer Louis and would love to have him at one, but it just doesn't sit right and this fight is the reason. Ali spent his pride, then his heart, then dug into whatever concrete is underneath that with a pick and shovel to secure that win. Any doubt that it was something supernatural holding him up is dispelled when Ali faints.

What a great, great fighter.

Eddie Futch did do the right thing. I don't think Frazier would have died or anything like that, but he was at risk of being knocked out by Ali and Futch doing what he did would have spared Joe that indignity. I couldn't imagine being knocked out by Ali that would sit well with Frazier at all who as you adhered to was a very proud man. Futch protected his fighter.

I agree greatly with your second paragraph. Ali is number #1 and rightfully should be IMO, his resume is better and I think he was better in the ring then Louis. It really is amazing that he came back in this fight and the Foreman fight and the Shavers fight etc to win, when you've got nothing left and you somehow manage to dig down...it makes you wonder how its even possible. Not to mention the beatings he absorbed, most of us know what its like to take a hard body punch, feel the sapping pain and the wincing hurt, then you're legs tire, how did Ali do it? From Frazier of all people! I just don't know...

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe

Really? You take the Foreman fight over the Thrilla In Manilla? I just love the Thrilla In Manilla, the fight itself is only part of that reason, the background story of Frazier being insulted and humiliated again and it being like 40 degrees and like 100% humidity just make it the greatest heavyweight fight in my opinion. The drama to with Ali starting fast then Frazier taking over etc etc..only to be finished with Eddie Futch's "Sit down son its all over...but no one will forget what you did here". It was the best bar none to me

I personally enjoy the Foreman battle more than any other.

[Pat_Lowe]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

I personally enjoy the Foreman battle more than any other.

I understood that and just questioned it, cause in my opinion its the Thrilla