Just did a Punch stat count on Foreman-Ali

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe

I understood that and just questioned it, cause in my opinion its the Thrilla

You'd have 95% of people agreeing, as i say it's the magnitude, the aura of Foreman, the actual odds against Ali etc. The whole event just does it for me, Ali is simply masterful given what he had at his disposal.

[Pat_Lowe]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

You'd have 95% of people agreeing, as i say it's the magnitude, the aura of Foreman, the actual odds against Ali etc. The whole event just does it for me, Ali is simply masterful given what he had at his disposal.

Out of curiosity how high were the odds? Nowadays you hear many people just saying the media were fearing for Ali's life etc but I'd like to know the numbers.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe

Out of curiosity how high were the odds? Nowadays you hear many people just saying the media were fearing for Ali's life etc but I'd like to know the numbers.

Well i distinctly remember either 5-1 or 7-1, but MDWC said the odds were less when he saw em. I'm sure i have a mag that has them at least 5-1.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

I personally enjoy the Foreman battle more than any other.

Exhaustion and humidity.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Foreman was 3-1. I guarantee this.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Foreman was 3-1. I guarantee this.

A 12 month guarantee, or a lifetime guarantee?.

[Bill Butcher]

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

I didn't count Foreman's "flicking", sticking his arms out/forward to intercept incoming punches (which, by the way, was completely ineffective against a straight puncher like Ali).
I did count short, light punches (often to the body) during clinches when one hand was free, though.

During the first five rounds, Foreman threw almost exclusively powershots. I didn't seperate them, but i'd be suprised if he threw more than 8 jabs a round. After round 5, he clearly tired and mixed a lot of arm punches / light punches to his arsenal.

Number of punches thrown by Foreman:

Round 1: 44
Round 2: 58
Round 3: 54
Round 4: 61
Round 5: 84*
Round 6: 48
Round 7: 46
Round 8: 67

Total number of punches is 462, which comes to an average of 59 punches a round (7.9 rounds).

*This round almost looked like a Foreman-heavybag exercise. After this round, Foreman really looked spent whereas Ali was fresh as a fish. During the rounds after this, most of Foreman's punches were light arm punches, no more than 15 of the 40-50 were full power shots with everything behind them. Interestingly, during the beginning of round 8, Foreman for a moment threw textbook jabs followed by a right hand when Ali layed on the ropes and to to great success; they landed.


I hadn't seen this fight in over a year and i have to say i was again suprised by the Ali cheerleader-ness of the commentator. When Foreman landed HUGE hooks to the liver and body, the commentator kept saying "those punches did not damage" on and on. Whenever Ali landed as much as a jab he was going wild "Ali lands a good left on Foreman's chin!". Even when
Ali was forced slow into a corner, he goes "Ali, dancing backward into a corner".



One more thing. Could this KO be more legit than it's made out to be?
There is no doubt that Foreman was tired. But, he did have a fairly high punch output right before he was knocked out. Ali hit him with about 8 punches that landed flush, beginning with one on the back of his head. If he could still get up, why didn't he? He had as good as zero chance of winning, but this is rarely mentioned against him. You hear all about
Tyson quitting mentally during hard fights etc, what about Foreman here? He certainly proved his heart (and chin) during his second career, but of course, Liston, Tyson, Duran etc also made it through tough fights on other ocassions during their carreers. I think this is an overlooked part of Foreman's career.

Im still confused about the point of this thread

What is it you want to get off your chest ?

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Foreman was 3-1. I guarantee this.

I'm still keen to see that damn article in one of me books. I must somehow find that.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Robbi

Exhaustion and humidity.

I knew you'd eventually see the merit, excellent choice

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

I knew you'd eventually see the merit, excellent choice

I hope life is treating you well my man.


Castlemaine XXXX

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Robbi

A 12 month guarantee, or a lifetime guarantee?.

A guarantee that lasts as long as Janitor finding the source that says Witherspoon was Ko'd by a middleweight.*







* So quite a while methinks.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

I knew you'd eventually see the merit, excellent choice

I believe you mate, it's just more journalistic licence. I think I read 7-1 once as well. Hey, why let the facts get in the way of more Ali hagiography? It was 3-1. Reduced from 4-1 after Foreman's cut eye.

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

A guarantee that lasts as long as Janitor finding the source that says Witherspoon was Ko'd by a middleweight.*







* So quite a while methinks.

So its "quite a while guarantee".


Witherspoon was KO'd by a lightweight, and not a middleweight.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Robbi

So its "quite a while guarantee".


Witherspoon was KO'd by a lightweight, and not a middleweight.

Well that's news to me. Was it when he was 14 or something?

[Robbi]

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Well that's news to me. Was it when he was 14 or something?

Nah, he was 2 months shy of his 14th birthday. You were close.