tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of punches - Page 2

Stevie G · 02-07-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red cobra

Quality punches vs pitty-pat flurries was what decided the FOTC.

Joe may have landed the harder punches,but I'd hardly describe Muhammad's punches as pitty-pat.

Duodenum · 02-07-2011, 11:15 AM

Ali did what he could to spare his vulnerable hands. Many of his double jabs in the rematch with Jerry Quarry were a deliberate miss with the first one, then recoiling with a subtle backhand on the return. He used his speed for intimidation, causing opponents to tense up, flinch, try to duck and dodge, and wear themselves down in the process. Poor Jerry wiped himself out overreacting to all the threats. (He was much more relaxed with Thad Spencer, and it showed.)

He generated enough substance in Manila alone though to possibly make up for any smoke and mirrors in his other bouts combined. Padilla forced him to fight for 14 rounds, continually slapping his gloves off the back of Frazier's neck.

Wepner, Lyle, Foreman, Dunn, Blue Lewis, Ellis, Bob Foster, Bonavena and Blin certainly weren't done by mirage. Nor were lesser tier decision wins over Mac Foster, Lubbers, Bugner 2X, Chuvalo 2X or Shavers (if you accept Shavers as a lesser tier win). There are plenty of ringside broadcasters describing reddened faces of Ali opponents as early as the opening moments (Mac Foster), faces swelling and puffing in short order. He drew plenty of blood during his career, and a knockout ratio of over 60% in 61 fights covering 21 years against the level of competition he typically dealt with is nothing to scoff at.

Swarmer · 02-07-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duodenum

Ali did what he could to spare his vulnerable hands.

There are plenty of ringside broadcasters describing reddened faces of Ali opponents as early as the opening moments (Mac Foster), faces swelling and puffing in short order. He drew plenty of blood during his career, and a knockout ratio of over 60% in 61 fights covering 21 years against the level of competition he typically dealt with is nothing to scoff at.

I've always thought those hand problems were a result of improper punching technique... You can see it when he's shadowboxing with his hands open, pinkies and thumbs out. Ali went for speed no doubt, and his shoeshining was heavier than some give him credit for, but I think if he had been a more correct puncher he wouldn't have had to worry as much about such things.

Ali's KO ratio is deceiving though. How many of those KO's were actual KO's? Most of them were TKOs from cuts or ref stoppages. he was good at puffing them up, but in terms of accurate punching and hurting guys or breaking them down in real fashion, not the greatest.

TheGreatA · 02-07-2011, 12:14 PM

Ali was actually punching with more power behind the punches in the first fight with Frazier. He did throw the usual pitty-pats as well, but landed plenty of hard right hands and left hooks that had Frazier grotesquely swollen by the end of the match.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEhQe6R09vo[/ame]

red cobra · 02-07-2011, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie G

Joe may have landed the harder punches,but I'd hardly describe Muhammad's punches as pitty-pat.

True, but compared to Joe's harder shots, they seemed like pitty-pat punches.

Kalasinn · 02-07-2011, 01:41 PM

When he was angry & planted his feet, Ali could land painful combinations with decent power, like in FOTC & Manila, they certainly weren't "pitty-pat" flurries.

However, i watched Ali-Shavers last night, & honestly i scored it 8-7 for Earnie. Ali was shot, & he did a lot of pitty-pat flurries to impress the commentators & judges. They looked somewhat flashy, but the vast majority of their content skimmed off Earnie's gloves. I don't hold it against Ali, he did what he had to in order to defend his championship, in the eyes of the judges.

Il Duce · 02-07-2011, 02:12 PM

If anything, Howard Cosell, was pre-programmed to see punches land that didn't.

Don Dunphy, on the other hand was much more accurate.

Cosell, would tell us that Ali missed on purpose, to set up his other punches.
Even when Ali got caught with a punch, Cosell would say,
'That didn't hurt, the Champion is just testing his opponents power'

Oh Howard,,,,,

Kalasinn · 02-07-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

If anything, Howard Cosell, was pre-programmed to see punches land that didn't.

Don Dunphy, on the other hand was much more accurate.

Cosell, would tell us that Ali missed on purpose, to set up his other punches.
Even when Ali got caught with a punch, Cosell would say,
'That didn't hurt, the Champion is just testing his opponents power'

Oh Howard,,,,,

Oh Duce...

Unforgiven · 02-07-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red cobra

It speaks of why it's often better to watch a fight with the sound off...so you can't hear what they're saying.

I would actually do that with live fights now, if only they had an option where you could turn off the commentary but keep the sound of the punches and crowd.
I would love it if they had that option.

Vince Voltage · 02-07-2011, 02:43 PM

Great post! I've been saying this for years! Ali got way too much credit for his flashy punches, so many of them blocked or missed. I also scored Shavers the victor, same with Norton. Announcers can be annoying, but they don't worry me the way judges do...judges are frequently fooled by this tactic and it really results in a lot of fighters getting screwed....Marvin Hagler versus Ray Leonard for one example.

Il Duce · 02-07-2011, 02:51 PM

OHHHHHHHH,,,,I forgot,,,,,,,,Howard Cosell was not biased,, when calling a
Muhammad Ali fight.

And Christine Aguilera sang beautifully last night........

Unforgiven · 02-07-2011, 02:58 PM

Cosell was comical.
He had his favourites for sure.

DonBoxer · 02-07-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

Oh Duce...

That sounds like a good song title.

tommygun711 · 02-07-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red cobra

True, but compared to Joe's harder shots, they seemed like pitty-pat punches.

they weren't pitty pat. ali floored foreman frazier couldnt have ever thought of flooring foreman

Johnstown · 02-07-2011, 04:34 PM

this isnt a real old fight...but i remember de la hoya vs whitaker.....oscar thows a big flurry at one point..thats back when oscars hands where pretty damn fast still.....and whitaker is moving..but it looks kind of like he is getting MOVED by the punches..in other words getting hit....and Lampley espically is having a massive mouth orgasim about how great it is...then they show it in slow motion between rounds....and NOT ONE punch landed...yet Lampley is still going on about how fucking great it is..and for some reason Merchant and foreman are silent...anyhow...

02-07-2011, 11:15 AM	#17
Duodenum Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,700 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Ali did what he could to spare his vulnerable hands. Many of his double jabs in the rematch with Jerry Quarry were a deliberate miss with the first one, then recoiling with a subtle backhand on the return. He used his speed for intimidation, causing opponents to tense up, flinch, try to duck and dodge, and wear themselves down in the process. Poor Jerry wiped himself out overreacting to all the threats. (He was much more relaxed with Thad Spencer, and it showed.) He generated enough substance in Manila alone though to possibly make up for any smoke and mirrors in his other bouts combined. Padilla forced him to fight for 14 rounds, continually slapping his gloves off the back of Frazier's neck. Wepner, Lyle, Foreman, Dunn, Blue Lewis, Ellis, Bob Foster, Bonavena and Blin certainly weren't done by mirage. Nor were lesser tier decision wins over Mac Foster, Lubbers, Bugner 2X, Chuvalo 2X or Shavers (if you accept Shavers as a lesser tier win). There are plenty of ringside broadcasters describing reddened faces of Ali opponents as early as the opening moments (Mac Foster), faces swelling and puffing in short order. He drew plenty of blood during his career, and a knockout ratio of over 60% in 61 fights covering 21 years against the level of competition he typically dealt with is nothing to scoff at.
Top

02-07-2011, 12:14 PM	#19
TheGreatA Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 7,116 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Ali was actually punching with more power behind the punches in the first fight with Frazier. He did throw the usual pitty-pats as well, but landed plenty of hard right hands and left hooks that had Frazier grotesquely swollen by the end of the match. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEhQe6R09vo[/ame]
Top

02-07-2011, 01:41 PM	#21
Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: from parts unknown Posts: 10,657 vCash: 1200	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun When he was angry & planted his feet, Ali could land painful combinations with decent power, like in FOTC & Manila, they certainly weren't "pitty-pat" flurries. However, i watched Ali-Shavers last night, & honestly i scored it 8-7 for Earnie. Ali was shot, & he did a lot of pitty-pat flurries to impress the commentators & judges. They looked somewhat flashy, but the vast majority of their content skimmed off Earnie's gloves. I don't hold it against Ali, he did what he had to in order to defend his championship, in the eyes of the judges.
Top

02-07-2011, 02:12 PM	#22
Il Duce Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,494 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun If anything, Howard Cosell, was pre-programmed to see punches land that didn't. Don Dunphy, on the other hand was much more accurate. Cosell, would tell us that Ali missed on purpose, to set up his other punches. Even when Ali got caught with a punch, Cosell would say, 'That didn't hurt, the Champion is just testing his opponents power' Oh Howard,,,,,
Top

02-07-2011, 02:43 PM	#25
Vince Voltage Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 886 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Great post! I've been saying this for years! Ali got way too much credit for his flashy punches, so many of them blocked or missed. I also scored Shavers the victor, same with Norton. Announcers can be annoying, but they don't worry me the way judges do...judges are frequently fooled by this tactic and it really results in a lot of fighters getting screwed....Marvin Hagler versus Ray Leonard for one example.
Top

02-07-2011, 02:51 PM	#26
Il Duce Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,494 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun OHHHHHHHH,,,,I forgot,,,,,,,,Howard Cosell was not biased,, when calling a Muhammad Ali fight. And Christine Aguilera sang beautifully last night........
Top

02-07-2011, 02:58 PM	#27
Unforgiven Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13,142 vCash: 1000	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun Cosell was comical. He had his favourites for sure.
Top

02-07-2011, 04:34 PM	#30
Johnstown No Longer Nefarious East Side VIP Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Johnstown PA Posts: 11,823 vCash: 500	Re: tv announcers give ali so much credit for his flurries..where he missed 90%of pun this isnt a real old fight...but i remember de la hoya vs whitaker.....oscar thows a big flurry at one point..thats back when oscars hands where pretty damn fast still.....and whitaker is moving..but it looks kind of like he is getting MOVED by the punches..in other words getting hit....and Lampley espically is having a massive mouth orgasim about how great it is...then they show it in slow motion between rounds....and NOT ONE punch landed...yet Lampley is still going on about how fucking great it is..and for some reason Merchant and foreman are silent...anyhow...
Top