Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-10-2011, 08:47 PM   #16
goat15
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
no I do not think it is naive at all since Ray's whole fight was to box Duran. You don't stand and box Duran, that is like Kobe trying to out rebound Shaq. When Kobe shoots from the outside Shaq cannot do anything about it, and Ray boxed and Duran couldn't do anything, which is supported by other times Duran fought speed like Hearns and Benitez.
Yes I think Ray was trying to outgut Duran and he got caught up in it. Ray was trying to get room to get leverage, but not keep distance. In the second fight he was using his speed to outbox Duran and make him look silly and he did just that. Compare round one's in both fights. Ray at the time was also green in June and and not yet the atg he was when he fought Tommy Hearns over a year later. That Duran fight taught Ray to always fight his fight and to always have the advantage. He learned. After the first fight, Ray beats Duran easily everytime out. It is not a matter of Ray fighting Duran's fight because Duran made him, Ray easily fought his fight after that.
i appreciate your point. i'll just say that when you're constructing a list of greats, pound for pound, based on achievements, all that matters is what happened. duran beat leonard and leonard beat duran. if you really want to throw in their third fight, with both removed from primes, fine. but no matter how much you say it, they didn't fight twenty times, and leonard didn't win nineteen of them. he won two of three.

and in my opinion, if leonard had won that great a number of fights, it wouldn't even make that much of a difference. see the langford wills fights for a comparison.

on the subject of langford... one of his greatest fights (in terms of being considered an achievement) was against jack johnson. langford lost (much like duran lost to hagler) but it still adds to his resume. i think if duran had compiled a similar record in the first half of the twentieth century (when losses were considered par for the course) the wins and losses may be viewed differently.

note, i'm just drawing a parallel between the circumstances, not the extent of them.
goat15 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-10-2011, 08:51 PM   #17
goat15
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
Leonard over Hagler, Duran and Hearns, Hearns destruction of Duran, Hagler's destruction of Hearns....are lesser wins than Duran's loss to Hagler.
bold statement! so are you saying that duran's loss to hagler is better than any fab four win? including his own win over leonard?
goat15 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 08:59 PM   #18
duranimal
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of England
Posts: 4,348
vCash: 1000
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat15 View Post
i appreciate your point. i'll just say that when you're constructing a list of greats, pound for pound, based on achievements, all that matters is what happened. duran beat leonard and leonard beat duran. if you really want to throw in their third fight, with both removed from primes, fine. but no matter how much you say it, they didn't fight twenty times, and leonard didn't win nineteen of them. he won two of three.

and in my opinion, if leonard had won that great a number of fights, it wouldn't even make that much of a difference. see the langford wills fights for a comparison.

on the subject of langford... one of his greatest fights (in terms of being considered an achievement) was against jack johnson. langford lost (much like duran lost to hagler) but it still adds to his resume. i think if duran had compiled a similar record in the first half of the twentieth century (when losses were considered par for the course) the wins and losses may be viewed differently.

note, i'm just drawing a parallel between the circumstances, not the extent of them.
Hey Mate! Word to the wise! MAG1965 is the resident duran hating ****in idiot on here He's clueless, same old shite about LEONARD being Green against Duran in Montreal then PRIME in New Orleans. Every time a newbie reponds to him he ejaculates all over the screen.

I managed to weedle out of him that his DAD is actually a Duran fan so go fugure + he's no doubt been slapped about more than a bit in a few bars by duran lookalikes hence his delusional angst. Keep feeding this monkey & all he'll do is shit on the floor more
duranimal is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 09:34 PM   #19
goat15
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by duranimal View Post
Hey Mate! Word to the wise! MAG1965 is the resident duran hating ****in idiot on here He's clueless, same old shite about LEONARD being Green against Duran in Montreal then PRIME in New Orleans. Every time a newbie reponds to him he ejaculates all over the screen.

I managed to weedle out of him that his DAD is actually a Duran fan so go fugure + he's no doubt been slapped about more than a bit in a few bars by duran lookalikes hence his delusional angst. Keep feeding this monkey & all he'll do is shit on the floor more
thanks for the heads up

but i've been reading these forums for a long time, i know who's who! just thought i'd join because i wanted to make a few threads. if anything, i like talking to people who are extreme in their views and unwilling to change - it's a challenge!

reasonable, balanced people are great, but chances are you'll simply end up agreeing with them. and if i wanted to do that, i'd just talk to myself
goat15 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 10:21 PM   #20
Clinton
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,854
vCash: 1000
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
Duran was not moving up in weight. He fought at 154 as early as 1978. And Ray was not great in 1980. He was not as complete as he was after he fought Duran's fight. When Ray fought his fight in the rematch Duran lost easily.
Right,because all Leonard did before his lost to Duran,fighting the same style against Roberto that he utilized to ko Tommy Hearns,was knock Wilfred Benitez out.And btw,Duran beat Palomino far more convincingly than Benitez did right around the same time.
Clinton is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2011, 11:21 PM   #21
DKD
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,311
vCash: 630
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

I don't have a problem with Duran in the top 10 ATGs, five is probably stretching it a bit, but his record and achievements are mighty impressive.

As for the list it should read:

Hearns Duran - Quickest and most decisive of all fab4 wins.
Hagler Hearns
Duran Leonard I
Leonard Hearns I
Leonard Hagler
Leonard Duran II
Hagler Duran
Hearns Leonard II
Leonard Duran III
DKD is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 06:20 AM   #22
Pachilles
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 3,158
vCash: 75
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat15 View Post
bold statement! so are you saying that duran's loss to hagler is better than any fab four win? including his own win over leonard?
No, i'm saying it was suggested in this thread already. And you'll find out soon that a fair amount of ESB Classic posters feel that Duran deserved the nod in the Hagler fight.
Pachilles is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 06:24 AM   #23
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 9,428
vCash: 1000
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by goat15 View Post
the fab four faced off numerous times... which wins were the greatest?

mine are:

1) duran over leonard (moving up in weight against a real all-time great who was in his prime, close but clear win. leonard's first loss, and if there was ever a fighter who seemed like he didn't know how to lose, it was leonard)

2) leonard over hearns (not 'convincing', but epic, and at a significant juncture in both men's careers. hearns' first loss)

3) hagler over hearns (emphatic win)

to be honest, none of the other fights between these four really do it for me in terms of being 'great' wins. although duran's performance against hagler was great, and leonard's performance against hagler (even putting the result to one side) was impressive.
For me,it's either Duran over Leonard,or Hearns over Duran. The former because of Duran triumphing over a peak Leonard,and the latter speaks for itself.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 07:38 AM   #24
goat15
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
No, i'm saying it was suggested in this thread already. And you'll find out soon that a fair amount of ESB Classic posters feel that Duran deserved the nod in the Hagler fight.
fair enough. would be interesting to see some scorecards for that fight.
goat15 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 07:52 AM   #25
laxpdx
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,389
vCash: 1000
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

For me it's a tie between Duran's UD of Leonard and Hearn's round 2 demolition of Duran.
Duran the natural LW, going to WW and catching fire to hand a prime Leonard his first loss. Similarly, Hearns coming of age and filling out to true form at 154 and blasting a man that just looked relatively well against the MW champ.
laxpdx is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2011, 08:30 AM   #26
natonic
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,751
vCash: 1000
Default Re: best 'fab four' win?

Duran W15 Leonard
Leonard TKO 14 Hearns
Leonard W12 Hagler
Leonard TKO 8 Duran
Hagler TKO 3 Hearns

- I don't see Leonard-Duran II on many lists which it would be if Duran had hung in there and taken his medicine.

-Hagler should've beaten Duran more convincingly.

- I think Tommy would always be bad for Duran, but I don't think Duran showed up for that fight and I don't rate it as highly as the top 5.

- Underrated, but not quite list worthy, is Hearns redemption in the 2nd fight with Leonard. Two fighters past best gave a great fight.
natonic is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013