Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) - Page 2

Duodenum · 02-11-2011, 10:20 AM

Carlos Padilla did not allow an aging 225 pound Ali to yank on Joe's head in Manila, and Muhammad stopped him anyway. If Padilla had been the referee for Ali-Frazier II and allowed no clinching, Muhammad would have simply run away with the decision, and Joe would have complained about that. (After Frazier finally got away from calling him "Clay," he referred to him in print as the "Butterfly.") Ali had the grueling exertion of Norton II behind him, and was in great shape at 212. He did stun Smoke into a quick jig late in round two, and Harry Carpenter described this as the match where he finally dug down to regain his former speed of the 1960s. I think this middle bout is significant in that it most resembles what Ali-Frazier I might have looked like in the late 1960s.

alexvoce · 02-11-2011, 04:52 PM

clay was a fucking cheat in this fight him and perez should have been shot!

Boucher · 02-11-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Butt

yes, yes you are perez killed the fight by allowing clay to hold frazier behind the head through out the fight and even after over a hundred warnings never even took a point away from clay

Clay? Who he?

Ali skated it.

Boucher · 02-11-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexvoce

clay was a fucking cheat in this fight him and perez should have been shot!

And you are a fucking idiot.

Boucher · 02-11-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duodenum

Carlos Padilla did not allow an aging 225 pound Ali to yank on Joe's head in Manila, and Muhammad stopped him anyway. If Padilla had been the referee for Ali-Frazier II and allowed no clinching, Muhammad would have simply run away with the decision, and Joe would have complained about that. (After Frazier finally got away from calling him "Clay," he referred to him in print as the "Butterfly.") Ali had the grueling exertion of Norton II behind him, and was in great shape at 212. He did stun Smoke into a quick jig late in round two, and Harry Carpenter described this as the match where he finally dug down to regain his former speed of the 1960s. I think this middle bout is significant in that it most resembles what Ali-Frazier I might have looked like in the late 1960s.

I concur.

timmers612 · 02-11-2011, 08:11 PM

After watching this bout I decided to use a variation of Ali's holding behind the neck against a Golden Gloves opponent who had beat me twice, and it worked like a T! I was able to control all three rounds and get off just the right punches and stop almost all of his. I had to thank Ali for the idea.

Il Duce · 02-11-2011, 08:20 PM

Muhammad Ali should have been warned by Tony Perez, before each round in his corner,
'Mr. Ali, I'll give you one warning about holding,,,,,than after that I'll deduct a point.
You hold twice, I'll deduct another point, you hold a third time, I'll deduct another
point.
I don't care if I have to deduct you 10-points a round, I'm in charge in there.
I won't disqualify you, but I'll make sure you won't cheat your opponent.

Duodenum · 02-11-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

Muhammad Ali should have been warned by Tony Perez, before each round in his corner,
'Mr. Ali, I'll give you one warning about holding,,,,,than after that I'll deduct a point.
You hold twice, I'll deduct another point, you hold a third time, I'll deduct another
point.
I don't care if I have to deduct you 10-points a round, I'm in charge in there.
I won't disqualify you, but I'll make sure you won't cheat your opponent.

I wonder if Perez allowed that holding as penance for his ridiculous blunder in prematurely halting the action during round two with Joe having retreated to the neutral corner after being stunned. He claims a ringside cowbell confused him, but any referee competent to officiate such a big match should have that three minute clock hard wired into his mentality. He claimed that since Ali wasn't hitting as he was holding that it didn't constitute fouling.

Mercante, Sr. credited Smoke as being a clean fighter for his style in Arthur's autobiography, while also identifying Ali as a very dirty boxer for his brand of pugilism.

Duodenum · 02-11-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmers612

After watching this bout I decided to use a variation of Ali's holding behind the neck against a Golden Gloves opponent who had beat me twice, and it worked like a T! I was able to control all three rounds and get off just the right punches and stop almost all of his. I had to thank Ali for the idea.

When Archie Moore reviewed Kinshasa years later, he said on camera that Ali's neck holding tactic was the specific reason Foreman wore down to the point where he could be dropped and knocked out. (As George was never any kind of choir boy in the ring himself, I have no issue with what Muhammad did in the jungle.)

Il Duce · 02-11-2011, 09:06 PM

Muhammad Ali, instead of thanking Tony Perez for allowing him to set a
Guinness Book of Records for holding in a boxing match, instead criticized
him for blowing the second round, and preventing him for knocking Joe out.

Muhammad Ali, the compassionate one, called Tony Perez a SP*C.

Of course the Puerto Rican fans never, ever forgot that, even today.

Duodenum · 02-11-2011, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Duce

Muhammad Ali, instead of thanking Tony Perez for allowing him to set a
Guinness Book of Records for holding in a boxing match, instead criticized
him for blowing the second round, and preventing him for knocking Joe out.

Muhammad Ali, the compassionate one, called Tony Perez a SP*C.

Of course the Puerto Rican fans never, ever forgot that, even today.

Let's not forget his lawsuit inducing flattery of Perez after Wepner either. Ali certainly didn't like it much when it was the back of his neck being targeted by Chuck.

Il Duce · 02-11-2011, 09:32 PM

No, that is true,,,,,,,,, Chuck was not the cleanest fighter in there.

But Chuck never had any power in his punches, so even though they landed,
they were nothing more than slaps to the back of the head.

What do you expect, when you're fighting a New Jersey Club-Fighter.

Henry Clark could never figure that one out, as he said, 'if I was only white'.

tommygun711 · 02-11-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Butt

sorry

i had been doing some reading and had clay stuck in my head

At least you're not pulling an Alex

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexvoce

clay was a fucking cheat in this fight him and perez should have been shot!

shut the fuck up you goddamn faggot. No one deserves to be shot and you're a fucking idiot for repeatedly calling him clay. get a life you hating piece of shit

Bokaj · 02-12-2011, 02:12 AM

As an Ali fan, it's an intersting fight because of how well he moves. The amount of shoeshining and holding in this fight has sadly overshadowed the excellent skill both, but particularily Ali, show several times. The combination Ali unleashes while moving backwards in rd 9, for example. To see that from a 212 lbs 32-year old...

Unforgiven · 02-12-2011, 04:54 AM

I think people should watch this one again and score it - I suspect it's a lot closer than is often made out to be. I remember Frazier getting a good share of the rounds. Of course, it's best not to listen to the retrospective version where Ferdie Pacheco has put his commentary on.

I'll watch it again later today and post my score card.

02-11-2011, 10:20 AM	#16
Duodenum Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 6,700 vCash: 1000	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) Carlos Padilla did not allow an aging 225 pound Ali to yank on Joe's head in Manila, and Muhammad stopped him anyway. If Padilla had been the referee for Ali-Frazier II and allowed no clinching, Muhammad would have simply run away with the decision, and Joe would have complained about that. (After Frazier finally got away from calling him "Clay," he referred to him in print as the "Butterfly.") Ali had the grueling exertion of Norton II behind him, and was in great shape at 212. He did stun Smoke into a quick jig late in round two, and Harry Carpenter described this as the match where he finally dug down to regain his former speed of the 1960s. I think this middle bout is significant in that it most resembles what Ali-Frazier I might have looked like in the late 1960s.
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02-11-2011, 04:52 PM	#17
alexvoce I'ma Come Out Smokin ESB Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Leicester Posts: 949 vCash: 1442	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) clay was a fucking cheat in this fight him and perez should have been shot!
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02-11-2011, 08:11 PM	#21
timmers612 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 786 vCash: 1000	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) After watching this bout I decided to use a variation of Ali's holding behind the neck against a Golden Gloves opponent who had beat me twice, and it worked like a T! I was able to control all three rounds and get off just the right punches and stop almost all of his. I had to thank Ali for the idea.
Top

02-11-2011, 08:20 PM	#22
Il Duce Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,494 vCash: 500	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) Muhammad Ali should have been warned by Tony Perez, before each round in his corner, 'Mr. Ali, I'll give you one warning about holding,,,,,than after that I'll deduct a point. You hold twice, I'll deduct another point, you hold a third time, I'll deduct another point. I don't care if I have to deduct you 10-points a round, I'm in charge in there. I won't disqualify you, but I'll make sure you won't cheat your opponent.
Top

02-11-2011, 09:06 PM	#25
Il Duce Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,494 vCash: 500	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) Muhammad Ali, instead of thanking Tony Perez for allowing him to set a Guinness Book of Records for holding in a boxing match, instead criticized him for blowing the second round, and preventing him for knocking Joe out. Muhammad Ali, the compassionate one, called Tony Perez a SP*C. Of course the Puerto Rican fans never, ever forgot that, even today.
Top

02-11-2011, 09:32 PM	#27
Il Duce Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,494 vCash: 500	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) No, that is true,,,,,,,,, Chuck was not the cleanest fighter in there. But Chuck never had any power in his punches, so even though they landed, they were nothing more than slaps to the back of the head. What do you expect, when you're fighting a New Jersey Club-Fighter. Henry Clark could never figure that one out, as he said, 'if I was only white'.
Top

02-12-2011, 02:12 AM	#29
Bokaj Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12,295 vCash: 1000	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) As an Ali fan, it's an intersting fight because of how well he moves. The amount of shoeshining and holding in this fight has sadly overshadowed the excellent skill both, but particularily Ali, show several times. The combination Ali unleashes while moving backwards in rd 9, for example. To see that from a 212 lbs 32-year old...
Top

02-12-2011, 04:54 AM	#30
Unforgiven Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13,141 vCash: 1000	Re: Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) I think people should watch this one again and score it - I suspect it's a lot closer than is often made out to be. I remember Frazier getting a good share of the rounds. Of course, it's best not to listen to the retrospective version where Ferdie Pacheco has put his commentary on. I'll watch it again later today and post my score card.
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