Muhammad Ali Vs Joe Frazier II (Ali-Frazier II took place January 28, 1974) - Page 3

Stevie G · 02-12-2011, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokaj

As an Ali fan, it's an intersting fight because of how well he moves. The amount of shoeshining and holding in this fight has sadly overshadowed the excellent skill both, but particularily Ali, show several times. The combination Ali unleashes while moving backwards in rd 9, for example. To see that from a 212 lbs 32-year old...

Ali's speed was awesome in this fight.

Kalasinn · 02-12-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie G

Ali's speed was awesome in this fight.

Stevie, in percentage terms, please compare this Ali to Peak Ali, for:

Handspeed:

Footwork speed:

Stevie G · 02-12-2011, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

Stevie, in percentage terms, please compare this Ali to Peak Ali, for:

Handspeed:

Footwork speed:

80% for both. I was n't inferring that he was AS fast in '74 as when he was fighting in the 60's,but he was still amazingly quick.

Kalasinn · 02-12-2011, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie G

80% for both. I was n't inferring that he was AS fast in '74 as when he was fighting in the 60's,but he was still amazingly quick.

80% seems a good estimate to me.

Stevie G · 02-12-2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

80% seems a good estimate to me.

No other heavyweight was that fast at the age of 32.

Kalasinn · 02-12-2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie G

No other heavyweight was that fast at the age of 32.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Who would be 2nd fastest at that age? Patterson?

Stevie G · 02-12-2011, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

I wholeheartedly agree.

Who would be 2nd fastest at that age? Patterson?

I reckon that's spot on. Especially handspeed.

Bokaj · 02-12-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I think people should watch this one again and score it - I suspect it's a lot closer than is often made out to be. I remember Frazier getting a good share of the rounds. Of course, it's best not to listen to the retrospective version where Ferdie Pacheco has put his commentary on.

I'll watch it again later today and post my score card.

I've watched it many times and my score has always been more or less the same. 1-3, 6, 9 and 11 clearly to Ali; 5, 7-8 and 10 clearly to Frazier. Rds 4 and 12 were quite close, but with Ali having the slight edge IMO. In other words 8-4 or 7-4-1 on my card. A draw would not be an inconceivable result, though.

Duodenum · 02-12-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalasinn

I wholeheartedly agree.

Who would be 2nd fastest at that age? Patterson?

Floyd was approaching 32 when Henry Cooper rated his hand speed as superior to that of a peak Ali, who Cooper was coming off his rematch loss to. My suspicion is that Sir 'Enery may have been confusing speed with quickness, but in any event, Patterson should never be sold short here. Right before the end of that bloody rematch between Ali and Cooper, we do see Henry able to duck and avoid some of Muhammad's shots, but not able to similarly evade Floyd's blows four months later. Also, in 1963, his left hook knockdown was the result of a jab duck and counter. Going by the Patterson-Cooper footage, he does clearly have more trouble with Floyd's speed than he did Ali's.