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Old 02-13-2011, 07:48 AM   #31
PowerPuncher
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

Jones himself says he was hitting with the same speed and power at 175 as he was at 160 for what its worth

Post 2000 Jones dropped off, but the Griffin 2/Hill version was certainly still primed
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:33 AM   #32
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

id say hagler narrowly on points .
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:36 AM   #33
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

I can't pick Hagler over 168lbs RJJ.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:56 AM   #34
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Jones himself says he was hitting with the same speed and power at 175 as he was at 160 for what its worth

Post 2000 Jones dropped off, but the Griffin 2/Hill version was certainly still primed
I'd argue that he hit with the same speed but with more power. Jones, for me, is there with Tyson for his combination of speed and heavy handedness ... only difference is their respective mentality and styles as to how they're perceived by most people IMO. I certainly think that Roy was much more of a physical specimen at 168 lbs, where his combination of speed and power is frightening. Only a 167 lbs Fitzsimmons is as devastating a fighter as what I believe that Roy could've become had he chosen to stay at the weight at SMW ... that is, as long as Ruby Bob weighs in at EXACTLY 167 lbs
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:44 AM   #35
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

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Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Enlighten me. How so?
Because he was the exact same fighter, but was fighting smaller men at smw than he was at lhw.

If you look at Roy in the ring with guys like Tarver and Hall, it's obvious that he is the one who started at mw and put on muscle to scale the weights, whereas they were bona fide natural lhw's. Roy was so damn good that he made it work at lhw, much like Pacquiao has done at lww and ww, but really he was a small lhw who could've stuck around at smw but wanted to be a multi-weight king. If Jones had been around in an era of big natural lhw's who were actually good (unlike Richard Hall et al), like Michael Spinks, John Conteh, Eddie Mustafa, etc, I'm sure Roy would've had some really tough nights.


Compare this to the smw Jones: utterly peerless.

A fully-sized smw who was strong as an ox there, and consider the evidence:

- Knocked out Sugarboy Malinga in 6 rounds (who had gone the distance with both Benn & Eubank the year before, and would not get stopped again until the penultimate fight of his career at the age of 44)

- Dazzled James Toney in a career-best performance

- Had another 5 smw fights, winning all 5 by stoppage, 3 of them in 3 rounds or less



IMO, Jones's prime was 1993-2003 from 160-175, but his absolute peak was 1994-96 at 168.
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

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Because he was the exact same fighter, but was fighting smaller men at smw than he was at lhw.

If you look at Roy in the ring with guys like Tarver and Hall, it's obvious that he is the one who started at mw and put on muscle to scale the weights, whereas they were bona fide natural lhw's. Roy was so damn good that he made it work at lhw, much like Pacquiao has done at lww and ww, but really he was a small lhw who could've stuck around at smw but wanted to be a multi-weight king. If Jones had been around in an era of big natural lhw's who were actually good (unlike Richard Hall et al), like Michael Spinks, John Conteh, Eddie Mustafa, etc, I'm sure Roy would've had some really tough nights.

He wasnt the same exact fighter and this is the very reason why he hit his peak as LH. Because he could deal with bigger stronger guys while being the smaller guy. He couldnt take the same chances. Prime is a fighter at their respective peak both physically and technically, and Jones hit his as a LH. No way to tell how he would do against the Spinks level LH's because he never fought them, but he looked pretty one sidedly dominant against a slew of top ten level guys and former great fighters.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:10 PM   #37
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

Jones did not improve post Toney. There's nothing to suggest that he got better considering he never looked that good again, particularly against that level of opponent. He's not at any disadvantage because of that in this match up. I agree with El Bujia, he was perfectly in his prime by the Tate fight at the latest.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:43 PM   #38
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

Agree that SMW Jones> LHW Jones.

Jones over Hagler as well.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:56 PM   #39
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

I'm honestly not sure who to pick here... I go back and fourth between the two in my mind so much, when thinking about this fight...

Either Jones by decision or Hagler stops him I think...
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:16 PM   #40
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Yeah right. You're the only one that thinks that then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhataRock
I also think that for the most part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins
No, because I can add my name to the list of people who thinks that.
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Originally Posted by Swarmer
Agree that SMW Jones> LHW Jones.
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Originally Posted by the cobra
Jones did not improve post Toney....I agree with El Bujia....
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

Speed kills and this points directly to Roy Jones out-boxing Hagler for a UD over 12 rounds. However, I'd bet on Hagler catching Jones, knocking him down once or twice and quite possibly stopping him before the 12 round distance. I never liked Roy Jones' hand positioning. His guard is horrible, left hand by the waistside, right hand chest level, never protecting his face properly or his body properly. Some would say he never really needed to pay much attention to proper guard technique with his reflexes arguably comparable to Ali. The Tarver, Johnson and Green KO's to me speak volumes that Roy relied way too much on his natural ability and it caught up to him.
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

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Originally Posted by round15 View Post
The Tarver, Johnson and Green KO's to me speak volumes that Roy relied way too much on his natural ability and it caught up to him.
Perhaps, but those fights occurred when most of his "natural ability" had diminished. In a prime for prime match-up, Hagler would have to deal with those attributes.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:00 PM   #43
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

My money would be on Jones, especially over 12. If Hagler wins it will probably be by abrupt KO. I can't see him wearing Jones down, considering Jones was so hard to land on consistently.
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Old 02-14-2011, 02:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

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Just shows you how many people have never laced on a pair of gloves. Dealing with a middleweight and LH are completely different. If you dont think Jones had to add a dimension to his game your nuts.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: prime marvin hagler vs prime roy jones

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Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Just shows you how many people have never laced on a pair of gloves. Dealing with a middleweight and LH are completely different. If you dont think Jones had to add a dimension to his game your nuts.
When I used to spar Id much rather spar the guy who was cumbersome and predictable but had 8kg on me..rather than some of the very good boxers who I had 8kg on...thats basically the situation Roy found himself in.

Nearly half the guys he fought up there were former middleweights anyway.

Id really love to see tangible evidence of this other "dimension"..rather than you just saying it to be so.
I personally didnt really see it, he just didnt lose hardly any speed so relative to the guys he was fighting he had an even bigger speed advantage...much like Pac now.

I really saw no change in him...if anything, as I said before, I just saw him get bored and phone in performances against mediocre opposition.
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