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View Poll Results: ALI hero or villain
HERO 43 75.44%
VILLAIN 14 24.56%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-13-2011, 08:56 AM   #16
McGrain
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexvoce View Post
He's a Cunt...... Thank god for karma
I have absolutely no idea what makes a man hate a boxer this much. Thank goodness.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:04 AM   #17
Il Duce
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Default Re: Ali

March 1978,,

'Muhammad Ali's Finances A Puzzle To News Media, 'I'm broke' He Quips'

Former Heavyweight Champion, Muhammad Ali has earned nearly $50,000,000 during his unforgettable boxing career, but his net worth today is no more than $3,500,000.

But Ali, relaxing in his plush basement of his Chicago mansion, dismissed the stories.

'They (who are they) are always trying to discredit our people, especially me'.
Ali most recent fight purse of $3,500,000 for his title losing effort versus Leon Spinks,
netted Mr. Ali $2,332,000. Ali's manager, Herbert Muhammad was glad to receive his
1/3 cut of $1,166,000.

Mr. Ali who had promised to donate his purse to 'hunger fighting causes' has yet to diclose his charitable donations. The Associated Press had disclosed, that the
former Champion had reneged on his promised charitable donation to the
'African Relief Fund'. The officers of the fund were told, that they would be receiving a
donation of $200,000 from Mr. Ali, and an additional $50,000 from Mr. Muhammad.
The 'relief fund' name was used as a promotion tool at the recent Championship Fight,
so the former champion could receive added money towards his fight purse, which in turn, would be donated to the 'relief fund'.

Officers of the fund say, they were duped by both parties, and their name was used
so the former champion could get more money out the promoter.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:13 AM   #18
bodhi
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexvoce View Post
He's a Cunt...... Thank god for karma
I wish you everything you wish Ali.
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
March 1978,,

'Muhammad Ali's Finances A Puzzle To News Media, 'I'm broke' He Quips'

Former Heavyweight Champion, Muhammad Ali has earned nearly $50,000,000 during his unforgettable boxing career, but his net worth today is no more than $3,500,000.

But Ali, relaxing in his plush basement of his Chicago mansion, dismissed the stories.

'They (who are they) are always trying to discredit our people, especially me'.
Ali most recent fight purse of $3,500,000 for his title losing effort versus Leon Spinks,
netted Mr. Ali $2,332,000. Ali's manager, Herbert Muhammad was glad to receive his
1/3 cut of $1,166,000.

Mr. Ali who had promised to donate his purse to 'hunger fighting causes' has yet to diclose his charitable donations. The Associated Press had disclosed, that the
former Champion had reneged on his promised charitable donation to the
'African Relief Fund'. The officers of the fund were told, that they would be receiving a
donation of $200,000 from Mr. Ali, and an additional $50,000 from Mr. Muhammad.
The 'relief fund' name was used as a promotion tool at the recent Championship Fight,
so the former champion could receive added money towards his fight purse, which in turn, would be donated to the 'relief fund'.

Officers of the fund say, they were duped by both parties, and their name was used
so the former champion could get more money out the promoter.
2 or 3 ex-wives with a lavish taste as well as numerous hangers on all had a chunk of it too. Are you insinuating he kept it all hidden in mattresses or dug holes in the ground and buried it, told everyone he was donating it, then lit big cuban cigars with $1000dollar bills???

Have you mentioned him giving the referee his $3000 dollar fee for the Dunne fight after he heard that he had lost it or had it stolen? No, i dont think you have. Or the measley $50,000 (alledgedly)that he got for the Holmes fight after being shafted by King. Or the 6 months rent he paid in advance for a halfway house that was threatened to be closed. Or the few thousand dollars he gave away to the kids having 'races' with him that he always finished last in? No, i dont think you have. So we have you more or less calling him a thief as well as the other 'crimes' on his list. One would think he was akin to pol pot or adi amin if you had your way

And people say Larry Holmes has a chip on his shoulder with Ali
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Old 02-13-2011, 09:30 AM   #20
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Angry Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexvoce View Post
He's a Cunt...... Thank god for karma
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:01 AM   #21
Il Duce
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Default Re: Ali

No, this is just public information.

When you promise an organization a donation, and use their stationary as a tool
to get more money from a promoter, then do not follow through on your promise,
what do you call it.

Arthur Evans of the New Orleans Relief Fund office stated, that he was told by
Ali's managers that the $200,000 doantion would not come directly from the promoter,
who had wanted to make a direct donation.
Instead, the money would be given to Mr. Ali first, then the champion would then
make a donation to the relief fund.

Asked to comment, Mr. Evans followed, "I was told it would look better if Mr. Ali
gave us this money, this way it would look like he was donating the money, not the
promoters of the fight'. The $200,000 was never Mr. Ali's to give, this donation was a charitable gift by the promoter, and was never Mr. Ali's gift or idea.'

Mr. Evans continued, 'Do you know who gets hurt by this, the children in need. Why
does the charitable gift have to go to Mr. Ali in the first place, simply put, so it
makes him look good. He's holding money that doesn't even belong to him, it belongs to the 'relief fund' and the children. He just wants to make it look like he's donating the money, just so he can make a big splash in the press.'
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:10 AM   #22
tommygun711
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexvoce View Post
He's a Cunt...... Thank god for karma
really because I think you're the cunt
**** off you hating piece of shit
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:13 AM   #23
johnmaff36
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
No, this is just public information.

When you promise an organization a donation, and use their stationary as a tool
to get more money from a promoter, then do not follow through on your promise,
what do you call it.

Arthur Evans of the New Orleans Relief Fund office stated, that he was told by
Ali's managers that the $200,000 doantion would not come directly from the promoter,
who had wanted to make a direct donation.
Instead, the money would be given to Mr. Ali first, then the champion would then
make a donation to the relief fund.

Asked to comment, Mr. Evans followed, "I was told it would look better if Mr. Ali
gave us this money, this way it would look like he was donating the money, not the
promoters of the fight'. The $200,000 was never Mr. Ali's to give, this donation was a charitable gift by the promoter, and was never Mr. Ali's gift or idea.'

Mr. Evans continued, 'Do you know who gets hurt by this, the children in need. Why
does the charitable gift have to go to Mr. Ali in the first place, simply put, so it
makes him look good. He's holding money that doesn't even belong to him, it belongs to the 'relief fund' and the children. He just wants to make it look like he's donating the money, just so he can make a big splash in the press.'
So, are you saying hes a thief? or a liar? or both?
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ali

I believe he did more good than bad. Just a man like everyone else.
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:20 AM   #25
Il Duce
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Default Re: Ali

I'm not saying anything,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm just re-stating public information.

I don't judge,,,,,,,you can come to your own conclussion.
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:36 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Hero,,,,,,,admired for bravery, and exhibiting noble qualities

Idolized,,,,,to worship as an idol, to admire very much

A big difference,,,,,,,
interestingly, i have an article from boxing news after the foreman fight (it was reprinted in a recent issue) where he say "I'm not looking to be idolised". I love ali as a fighter and entertainer but **** me, he LOVED being idolised and craved attention adoration.

Hero is a tricky one as i admire his bravery but nobility? not sure bout that one...
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:37 AM   #27
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I have absolutely no idea what makes a man hate a boxer this much. Thank goodness.
unless alexvoce is really joe frazier, he has no reason to hate him like this. otherwise, i'm pretty even smokin joe would tell him to let it go
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:48 AM   #28
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Default Re: Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
I'm not saying anything,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm just re-stating public information.

I don't judge,,,,,,,you can come to your own conclussion.
I think that what johnmaff36 is saying is that your many posts concerning Ali seem to be geared to be interpreted negatively towards his character or his abilities as a fighter. There is much more evidence of his doing good than his doing bad and if you wanted to be objective and not appear to judge, then you'd be better served offering examples that show a balance, rather than predominantly one-sided, which do indicate an agenda.

Ali's one of my icons, but I learnt a long time ago that the lines between heroism and villainy can be very thin indeed. Before we look to Ali (who let's face it, competed in a sport which by its very nature encourages and promotes behaviours that society deems wholly abominable outside the squared circle, and to significant degrees, inside the squared circle) to ascertain good and bad/any iota of a moral compass, or any other fighter, icon or celebrity, we as adults need to make sure our houses are in order.

I won't judge Ali, seeing as I've never been put in such a situatiuon - the immense pressures of the racial climate for him growing up, the expectancy from his immediate community versus conservative Middle America, the pressures that come with being the world champion and the lack of privacy that comes with the territory, as well as a myriad of temptations. I cannot honestly say that had I been in his shoes I wouldn't have been much, much worse than Ali was ... and oh, there are times that he was so wrong it's asinine that a man of his qualities could be so cruel, ignorant and assholey ... at the same time, the amount of good that he's done through his lifetime ... I judge him as just that ... a man who faltered, but a man who grew up, matured and ultimately gave more to the world than any of us typing at our desks at home or work, living our relatively insignificant lives could ever dream of.
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Old 02-13-2011, 10:57 AM   #29
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Default Re: Ali

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Originally Posted by META5 View Post
I think that what johnmaff36 is saying is that your many posts concerning Ali seem to be geared to be interpreted negatively towards his character or his abilities as a fighter.
Yeah, exclusively. Obviously Ali did much good and there was much to admire about him, but none of that is ever presented. On the other hand, he goes through the Ali negatives with a fine tooth comb and presents them to the board.

But he does present them to the board, and it is information, and it's good to have daylight shed on some of this stuff, isn't it?

Of course, like the man himself says, what you do with that information is up to you. I'm cautious. He's obviously extremely biased, and a lot of what he said when he first joined the forum, primarily concerning the ranking and standing of Eddie Machen, was not true, and at best wasn't properly researched.

It's also true that he very rarely presents any sources for the information. I personally think it's very unlikely he's flat out making stuff up, but it does seem very possible that he's repeating badly sourced information that wouldn't normally warrant repeating given his general attitude. This guy wants to believe. And like any poster iwith an axe to grind, he gets tiresome quickly.

But again, much of it is interesting.
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:08 AM   #30
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Default Re: Ali

JohnGarfield, burt bienstock and Ill Duce are by far my favourite postors on this forum.
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