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View Poll Results: ALI hero or villain
HERO 43 75.44%
VILLAIN 14 24.56%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-13-2011, 12:09 PM   #31
META5
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Default Re: Ali

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Yeah, exclusively. Obviously Ali did much good and there was much to admire about him, but none of that is ever presented. On the other hand, he goes through the Ali negatives with a fine tooth comb and presents them to the board.

But he does present them to the board, and it is information, and it's good to have daylight shed on some of this stuff, isn't it?

Of course, like the man himself says, what you do with that information is up to you. I'm cautious. He's obviously extremely biased, and a lot of what he said when he first joined the forum, primarily concerning the ranking and standing of Eddie Machen, was not true, and at best wasn't properly researched.

It's also true that he very rarely presents any sources for the information. I personally think it's very unlikely he's flat out making stuff up, but it does seem very possible that he's repeating badly sourced information that wouldn't normally warrant repeating given his general attitude. This guy wants to believe. And like any poster iwith an axe to grind, he gets tiresome quickly.

But again, much of it is interesting.

Nail. Hammer. Head.

Obviously, Ali isn't to be deified and there should be a balance, but yeah, I have to agree ... tiresome is the appropriate word. It's exactly the same as with cassius m clay, just on different sides of the coin.

I do, however, value some of the insights shed on the Liston affair, but as you imply, information without a source keeps me cautious as to the level of validity.

Back to the original issue ... in school I learnt that heroes were God-Men such as Hercules and Perseus. Hero in death perhaps, to a large portion of Western Media and the media influenced ... in fact, the only man that I think is going to garner as much attention and affection as Ali will, when he passes, is Nelson Mandela. I guess if it's strict black and white, the answer's hero

Last edited by META5; 02-13-2011 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: Ali

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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
I'm not saying anything,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm just re-stating public information.

I don't judge,,,,,,,you can come to your own conclussion.
Your joking, right? Your not saying anything? In less than 3 months here you have near 3000 posts. Im guessing at least 80% of those posts involve some Ali in some shape or form, and 99.99% of those, are in a negative way......and you claim your saying nothing??? Maybe your right, but you sure do make the snow*****.


As for claiming you dont judge....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!
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Old 02-13-2011, 12:39 PM   #33
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No 20% of my posts are about Cassius Clay (pre-February 25, 1964 and Muhammad Ali), and it is split right down the middle on positive and negative.

Whats the point of re-hashing all the views that everyone is aware of.
The points or articles I mention, are the ones you have to dig a little to find.

Doesn't it ever register, that there appears to be a hidden agenda in many of the
goodwill gestures that were done.

You don't even want me to go further into this 'African Relief Fund' issue, because you will not believe what happened. I cut it short.

Needles to say, The 'African Relief Fund' was used to get another $250,000 out of the fight promotion.
The New Orleans group never got their charitable donation, and the dry-goods that were stored in
a New Orleans warehouse had to be returned to the distributors for non-payment.

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-13-2011 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:26 PM   #34
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He's a ****...... Thank god for karma

your not keen then
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Old 02-13-2011, 05:06 PM   #35
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Default Re: Ali

Duce, may I see the source for both of those instances?
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Old 02-13-2011, 05:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Ali

Not the part about being broke.


Ali was always "broke"

Well...
He would give all his money away to people, go do an appearance, collect a fat check, and do it all over again. Rinse and repeat. That was his life.



Hard to be broke when your face is worth millions.


Its like people who say Tyson is/was broke. They dont get it. Tyson can do a documentary and feed his family for another 5 years. People like Ali, Tyson...they can only go broke by definition. But money will never be an issue.
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Old 02-13-2011, 05:26 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
'They (who are they) are always trying to discredit our people, especially me'.


He's talking about you

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Old 02-13-2011, 11:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Ali

Long ago he cemented a place as a hero but some of the **** he spewed to frazier before manilla was downright ****ed...im suprised when he was calling joe an "uncle tom" and a "gorilla" that old smokin' joe didnt just KO him with a 2x4 at the press confrence....
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Old 02-14-2011, 12:05 AM   #39
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Default Re: Ali

As a person he is a ******* the attacks on Smokin Joe, his infidelity, his out of control ego. But his public persona and the good work he has done outweigh this, so the asshole is a HERO.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:09 AM   #40
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Default Re: Ali

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Originally Posted by Mr Butt View Post
there have been so many threads about him recently and his fights and whole persona . so a simple question ALI hero or villain ? no in betweens or this or that just a straight two choice decision

for me more of a villain
Far more a hero than a villain.
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:16 AM   #41
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Default Re: Ali

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Originally Posted by reznick View Post
He's talking about you

Wait,,,,,,,,I'm trying to discredit our people..????

What people
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:55 AM   #42
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June 1978

Herbert Muhammad No Longer 'Owns' Muhammad Ali's Contract

The $50 Million manager-boxer team of Herbert Muhammad and Muhammad Ali
will become a thing of the past in July, 1979 (a year from now).

Herbert Muhammad said, 'I should have travelled with him constantly, like I used to.'
'From my point of view, Ali is constantly far and distant from me. So he wanted to
negotiate his own deals in connection with royalties and endorsements, he wants
to deal exclusively for himself'.

That means once the Ali-Muhammad contract ends, Herbert will no longer get his
customary 33 1/3% from Ali's fight purses, nor will he collect 25% of Ali's
endorsement and royalty money he now receives when he finds deals for Ali.

Herbert readily admits, by the letter of the contract, he did 'own' the two-time
heavyweight champion.

Herbert Muhammad, as ex-manager, will continue to receive 15% of any deal he
can find for Ali after the contract expires.

Herbert Muhammad commented, when asked about losing such a valuable client,
stated, 'Im not upset, and I'm not hungry either'.
Looking at the added girth around Herbert Muhammad's waist (close to 300 lbs.),
he sure looks like he had been eating at Muhammad Ali's table for a long time.

Currently, there may be an issue between Ali and Muhammad, as Mr. Ali has been
negotiating a deal with Ford Motor Company in Detroit. Ford wants Mr. Ali to
push Ford Motor Parts, in commercials, including television and radio.
Mr. Ali has been in direct negotiations, without the help of outside advisors.

This could be a million dollar deal, and Mr. Muhammad, as he stated, under the contract is
entitled to 25% of all endorsement contracts. Asked if he had done any work or was
part of the meetings with Ford Motor Co., Mr. Muhammad said. 'No, but that doesn't matter,
as a contract is a contract. If Muhammad gets $1 for an endorsement, I'm entitled to 25%,
no if ands or buts.'

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-14-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 02-14-2011, 10:13 AM   #43
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Default Re: Ali

annoying in the ring and out to me but he's more Hero, tbh
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Old 02-14-2011, 11:07 AM   #44
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October 1978

'LAW SUIT BY WHITES, AGAINST BLACK PROMOTERS"

Phillip Ciaccio, a New Orleans City Councilman, and New Orleans businessman
Jake DiMaggio have filed a law-suit agaisnt Superbouts, Inc.. claiming a
misappropriation of $1,000,000 in funds ear-marked towards the September bout
between then Champion Leon Spinks and Challenger Muhammad Ali.

Sherman Copelin and Don Hubbard of SuperBouts, Inc. and Butch Lewis formerly of
Top Rank, Inc. were sued by the 'two' New Orleans representatives.

It appears that there has been poor record filings, and mysterious hidden costs
concerning promotion of the fight, totalling a $1,000,000.
Money ear-marked for charitable donations, has suddenly disappeared.
Lavish parties, expensive gifts and vehicles purchased have been added to the
expense accounts, and were listed as 'neccessary promotional expenses'.

One investigator commented, 'if you need vehicles for the promotion, any rental
company in New Orleans can provide services, including limo's and luxury
vehicles'. What I have found, is that '12' vehicles were purchased, totalling
$250,000, including '4' new Mercedes Benz cars. When I asked the people in charge,
what happened to the vehicles, the same answer followed, 'we know nothing'.
All of this was billed to the financers of the promotion, and then the costs were hidden in the expense report.
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:15 PM   #45
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Default Re: Ali

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Originally Posted by Swarmer View Post
annoying in the ring and out to me but he's more Hero, tbh
A hero with a villainous streak in him. 'cos he's human !
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