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Old 02-21-2011, 05:58 AM   #16
Woller
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

Acording to press reports from that time, Cooper was well in front when Mildenberger was thrown out for butting. (Sometimes head clashes are a big problem when a southpaw meets an orthodox fighter)

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Old 02-21-2011, 07:17 AM   #17
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Originally Posted by RockysSplitNose View Post
I'd definately have Cooper ahead of Bugner - Bugner could barely beat the shadow of Cooper - the 63 version of Cooper would, I think, give Bugner quite a pasting actually - I probably put Cooper on about a par with probably Frank Bruno - possibly a shade better - I personally rate Farr very very highly amongst heavyweights from these shores
Even though Cooper was past it,when he had that close one with Bugner,it has to be said that Joe had n't yet reached his peak. The best Cooper,say 1963 version against the 1973/76 Bugner,would result in a close decision for Joe,in my view. Providing Bugner was in one of his 'up for it' moods.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:37 AM   #18
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Originally Posted by Woller View Post
Acording to press reports from that time, Cooper was well in front when Mildenberger was thrown out for butting. (Sometimes head clashes are a big problem when a southpaw meets an orthodox fighter)

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MIldenberger was dangerous with his head on several occasions in this fight and Cooper was winning handily at the time of the stoppage.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Wasn't that a robbery?
No Cooper had Karl over a couple of times, schooled him but was butted often inside in the usual tangles you get when both guys only use their lead arm. The german corner also used smelling salts but it was butting that he was DQ'd for.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Imagine that knock down in the first fight vs clay had come a minute earlier and not right at the end of the round, one wonders what would have then happened
Ali was up at the count of 4. It's such an overplayed event it's unreal.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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I watched both Cooper fights with Ali and felt he more than held his own. It would have been interesting to have seen what would have transpired had it not been for the cuts around the eyes. I don't recall seeing Cooper hurt or even staggered in either fight. He certainly looked better with Ali than he did with either Patterson or Johansson. Again styles make the fights and Cooper's style seemed to bother Ali more than most.
Good post DFW! Styles make fights as so many of us say and Henry showed his mettle in many fights.
Let's remember the 1st Ali scrap in June of 63'. Didn't (the fighting champion, as the British announcer called him) come out, bloody Ali's nose, and win the first round?
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Originally Posted by Woller View Post
Acording to press reports from that time, Cooper was well in front when Mildenberger was thrown out for butting. (Sometimes head clashes are a big problem when a southpaw meets an orthodox fighter)

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Cooper owned Mildenberger that night. Henry's left jab controlled the fight.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

Cooper was a good fighter, but by the standards of later generations, he was just a cruiserweight. Lennox, Haye, Akinwande, Bugner, and Bruno -- in their primes -- all would have been too much for Cooper.
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Ali was up at the count of 4. It's such an overplayed event it's unreal.
Agreed
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Agreed
No, let's not agree. The Cooper KD was legit even tho Henry wasn't in the same league as Ali. Let's not nut-hug here boys! Ali WAS up at four, went to his corner, and....about 6-7 seconds later got up and started walking towards...who knows WHERE! He was CLOCKED by Henry...fact.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:19 AM   #26
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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cooper gets a bum deal on this forum.

Aside from zora folley here is a list of ring magazine top ten rated contenders cooper beat.

dick richardson (euro champ, beat ezzard charles and bob baker)
joe bygraves (comonwealth champ)
brian london (beat pastrano, radmacher, roger rischer and zora foley)
joe erskine (beat chuvalo & pastrano)
alex miteff (beat nino valdes)
roy harris (world title chalenger)
wayne bethea (beat ezzard charles & ernie terrel)
karl mildenburger (world title chalenger & euro champ)
hubert hilton (rated in top ten 1966)
jose urtain (beat 4 euro champions, ring magazine fighter of the month)

*heinz neuhaus (draw in germany)

heinz was a euro champ who beat rex layne and dan bucceroni
you kno that cooper stayed away from chuvalo even though he was the top contender for the commonwealth title for years.
coopers manager said he wasn't putting henry in the ring with brawlers like chuvalo and liston among others..
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:09 AM   #27
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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No, let's not agree. The Cooper KD was legit even tho Henry wasn't in the same league as Ali. Let's not nut-hug here boys! Ali WAS up at four, went to his corner, and....about 6-7 seconds later got up and started walking towards...who knows WHERE! He was CLOCKED by Henry...fact.
This is it. The KD was bona-fide, and Ali was as drunk as a sack when he got up...look at Ali's face when sitting in the corner when being gving smelling salts (looks like) - his eyes were all over the place - he was absolutely GONE! C'mon guys, let's give Cooper some deserved credit here! Henry was a good finisher, it is quite possible he would have stopped Ali IF the punch had landed earlier in the round...who knows how different boxing history wouldd have been. But the punch didn't land earlier...so here we are.

For Ali fans to deny the significance of the KD and to deny how badly their man was hurt is nut-huggery of the highest order imo, and typical of how much in denial some Ali fans are about ANYTHING negative about their man, or indeed, anything positive about his opposition. Indeed, it seems to me that with some Ali fans, the only time they give his opposition credit, is if it makes their man Ali look better!
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:13 AM   #28
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Originally Posted by jowcol View Post
No, let's not agree. The Cooper KD was legit even tho Henry wasn't in the same league as Ali. Let's not nut-hug here boys! Ali WAS up at four, went to his corner, and....about 6-7 seconds later got up and started walking towards...who knows WHERE! He was CLOCKED by Henry...fact.
Of course the knockdown was legit.Who says it wasn't?So,that makes it NOT an overplayed event?That's not nuthugging.It's an overplayed event.What's nuthugging is all the ifs had the knockdown occured earlier in the round or the myth that the cut glove delay was longer than the 6 or 7 seconds that it actually was.THAT'S nuthugging.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:17 AM   #29
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb) View Post
This is it. The KD was bona-fide, and Ali was as drunk as a sack when he got up...look at Ali's face when sitting in the corner when being gving smelling salts (looks like) - his eyes were all over the place - he was absolutely GONE! C'mon guys, let's give Cooper some deserved credit here! Henry was a good finisher, it is quite possible he would have stopped Ali IF the punch had landed earlier in the round...who knows how different boxing history wouldd have been. But the punch didn't land earlier...so here we are.

For Ali fans to deny the significance of the KD and to deny how badly their man was hurt is nut-huggery of the highest order imo, and typical of how much in denial some Ali fans are about ANYTHING negative about their man, or indeed, anything positive about his opposition. Indeed, it seems to me that with some Ali fans, the only time they give his opposition credit, is if it makes their man Ali look better!
Nonsense.It was a legit knockdown.But the real nuthuggery lies in ALL of the ifs concerning the knockdown and the amount of time that the Cooper fans tack onto the cut glove delay.
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Old 06-23-2012, 05:23 AM   #30
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Default Re: sir henry cooper

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Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb) View Post
This is it. The KD was bona-fide, and Ali was as drunk as a sack when he got up...look at Ali's face when sitting in the corner when being gving smelling salts (looks like) - his eyes were all over the place - he was absolutely GONE! C'mon guys, let's give Cooper some deserved credit here! Henry was a good finisher, it is quite possible he would have stopped Ali IF the punch had landed earlier in the round...who knows how different boxing history wouldd have been. But the punch didn't land earlier...so here we are.

For Ali fans to deny the significance of the KD and to deny how badly their man was hurt is nut-huggery of the highest order imo, and typical of how much in denial some Ali fans are about ANYTHING negative about their man, or indeed, anything positive about his opposition. Indeed, it seems to me that with some Ali fans, the only time they give his opposition credit, is if it makes their man Ali look better!
Your last statement in this thread says it all.Cooper fans routinely tack on even MINUTES to the cut glove delay,but you wrote,"...the only time they give their opposition credit,is if it makes their man Ali look better." Isn't that EXACTLY what Cooper fans do when the say if the knockdown had occered earlier or the cut glove delay took far longer than it actually did?I think Cooper himself claimed it took something like 2 minutes.
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