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View Poll Results: Who`s the sweetest welterweight ever ?
Sugar Ray Robinson 25 67.57%
Sugar Ray Leonard 12 32.43%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-16-2007, 07:33 AM   #1
Bill Butcher
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Default 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Well, suprise suprise, we have the dream match to settle all dream matches, probably the 2 greatest welter-wts who ever lived, both called sugar ray.

Opinions will vary on this 1 as neither have ever lost at this weight & quite often both looked unbeatable at the weight but who comes out on top, robinson or leonard.

Robinson saw off henry armstrong by a dazzling 21 votes to 2 while Leonard did likewise to jose napoles by 23 votes to 9.

Who is all time welterweight king, you have 2 days to decide, make your vote count.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:34 AM   #2
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Where's the ballot?
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

I'd expect Robinson to dominate and stop Leonard. Not easy fighting a guy who does most of what you do better plus excellent power.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

All factors taken into consideration: Robinson holds the ever so slight edge, however I think SRL might just beat him in a head-to-head contest. Also he's the most complete package of any WW I've ever seen.


I'll put the cat amongst the pigeons and vote for Leonard.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:42 AM   #5
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
I'd expect Robinson to dominate and stop Leonard. Not easy fighting a guy who does most of what you do better plus excellent power.

Honestly?

I can't envisage either fighter dominating the other here. It's a pick 'em for me.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Honestly?

I can't envisage either fighter dominating the other here. It's a pick 'em for me.
In which areas does Leonard exceed Robinson?
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Robinson KO11 Leonard

I think Robinson at 147 is too good. SRL will have his moments with some flashy combos, but Robinson will wear him down, bust him up and then KO him late.

Robinson goes home in the Pink Caddy, Leonard is off the the infirmary for observation.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
In which areas does Leonard exceed Robinson?
Leonard had a very minor edge in handspeed and defence. Robinson carried more power, although more or less every other area was close to call between 'em.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:49 AM   #9
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
In which areas does Leonard exceed Robinson?
Possibly hand speed, but Robinson's handspeed is if anything underrated now because the only common footage is at 160. I
think SRL would just edge him. Leonard might be the fasest 147 in history actually.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Leonard had a very minor edge in handspeed and defence. Robinson carried more power, although more or less every other area was close to call between 'em.
I agree but understanding the following - Leonard is harder to hit, but only because he spends (generally) so little time in the firing zone. Despite being in the danger zone for huge portions of the match, Robinson is very hard to hit too. I think in this match, Leonards advantage in elusivenss is nul and void for this reason.

Second, Leonard MAY have an edge in handspeed. But I believe Robinson could throw punches just as quickly. It's just that when you throw very heavy blows in combinations you're going to be slowed up some. The difference needs to be massive to coutneract this huge Robinson advantage in punching. And it's just not.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not attacking Leonard. A great fighter, a top 5 WW, all time. But this match is just wrong for him - it's actually Robinson's easiest day out in the top 12 as far as I am concerned. The most over-hyped fantasy match in the sport.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:55 AM   #11
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Anybody who thinks that there's a massive gulf in class between Robinson and a fellow Top 3 all-time WW, they're surely being a tad unrealistic. Both these guys bring to the table plenty of aces which will pose the other problems.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
But this match is just wrong for him - it's actually Robinson's easiest day out in the top 12 as far as I am concerned. The most over-hyped fantasy match in the sport.
I totally disagree. Leonard will be competitive all the way. Robinson had his close calls at 147 vs fighters not as good as Leonard. I think Leonards style matches up possibly better than any other 147 truth be told. I also think SRR will still edge him, and any other 147 ever for that matter. Leonards speed is definitely going to disrupt SRR a bit, and don't be mistaken that he can't punch damn hard at 147 just because he moves a bit. This is a first class matchup.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
Anybody who thinks that there's a massive gulf in class between Robinson and a fellow Top 3 all-time WW, they're surely being a tad unrealistic. Both these guys bring to the table plenty of aces which will pose the other problems.
There is no gulf in class. They are both top .01%, all time. But if two greats meet and one outdoes the other in the areas where the first is used to excelling, the first will get soundly beaten.

Every time.
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
There is no gulf in class. They are both top .01%, all time. But if two greats meet and one outdoes the other in the areas where the first is used to excelling, the first will get soundly beaten.

Every time.
But in this case fighter 2 comes closer than most if not all others to matching fighter 1 in many area's. Gavilan had two great fights with SRR and Leonard brings some different assets to the table, not that Gavilan was lacking, super fighter. Realistically nobody at 147 has ever come anywhere near as close to matching SRR's immense completeness as Leonard. Neither have any standout weakness whatsoever, this just might be the most complete matchup of all time.
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:03 AM   #15
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Default Re: 147 lb Tourney Final - SUGAR v SUGAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I totally disagree. Leonard will be competitive all the way. Robinson had his close calls at 147 vs fighters not as good as Leonard.
And in addition, Leonard would be the best fighter Robinson ever fought, period. I'm not talking about class here.

Quote:
I think Leonards style matches up possibly better than any other 147 truth be told.
Why? Punching, he loses. Footspeed, he loses. Aggression, he loses. Ring generalship...borderline, but he loses. Adaptability, close, but Robinson holds all the aces for changing this match, so he loses. What does he bring to upset Robinson? Specificifally.
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