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Old 02-19-2011, 10:21 PM   #1
Bobby Sinn
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Default Willard vs Jeffries.

Right-o.. The number of times I've heard the expression 'Toledo Dempsey' makes me ill. FFS!!

Dempsey turned up to a fight without an opponent. As much as he tried, and with the greatest amount of 'leverage' from todays rules possible (i.e No nuetral corner, no standing 8, hovering over a fallen fighter, hitting kidneys, back of head and standing behind a man to deliver a blow) Manassa Jack was unable to put the finishing touch on Jess.... who retired after round 3.

Oh yeah, great performance!!

The film is a disgrace to the game... but the slaughter is enjoyable to watch.

Take 'Toledo' Willard and place him in with July 4th, 1910 Jeffries.

WHO WINS??????????????? 20 rounds.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

????? Yea ok....dempsey was shit because he didn't put a heavyweight champion with a 60 pound weight advantage completly to sleep,,,,
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

A 37y/o defenceless, unskilled man, who'd been dropped 7 times in one round, belted from every possible angle and continued to get up.

What more advantage, would you assume, Dempsey could possibly need??
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Sinn View Post
A 37y/o defenceless, unskilled man, who'd been dropped 7 times in one round, belted from every possible angle and continued to get up.

What more advantage, would you assume, Dempsey could possibly need??
willard had more skill then many give him credit for...he was 37...but to put a a beating on the man was still impressive.....many fighters could last a round like that...if they get knocked down that many times and are allowered to continue. Of course you can say Dempsey should have put him totally outcold..but i think thats a pretty damn weak attack to make.
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

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Originally Posted by Johnstown View Post
willard had more skill then many give him credit for...he was 37...but to put a a beating on the man was still impressive.....many fighters could last a round like that...if they get knocked down that many times and are allowered to continue. Of course you can say Dempsey should have put him totally outcold..but i think thats a pretty damn weak attack to make.
my which a mean a fight like that today would be stopped...and therefore your criticism could not then be made.
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

i think the jeffries of the johnson fight lacks the explosive speed to get to willard (he was never as explosive as dempsey anyhow...fighting with a cruder style) and would likely get worn down big jess.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:14 AM   #7
Bobby Sinn
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

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Originally Posted by Johnstown View Post
i think the jeffries of the johnson fight lacks the explosive speed to get to willard (he was never as explosive as dempsey anyhow...fighting with a cruder style) and would likely get worn down big jess.
Agree.

Whilst Willards only great offensive weapon, a long right arm, would hardly be battering Jeffries down, the sheer height and smothering advantage would toll on Jeff's stamina before long.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Sinn View Post
Agree.

Whilst Willards only great offensive weapon, a long right arm, would hardly be battering Jeffries down, the sheer height and smothering advantage would toll on Jeff's stamina before long.
how do you think jeffries, willard and dempsey would get on, one after the other against tyson ??
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

Jeffries wins.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

Bobby, with all due respect,a couple of points.
1-Jess willard though not one of histories greatest heavyweights,was most likely a giant with the greatest "beard". NEVER DROPPED BEFORE TOLEDO.Even Jack Johnson,though
37 years of age hit Willard with EVERY punch in the book for 25 rounds,and not ONCE shook
the 6ft,7" giant! Not ONCE. A later immortal puncher after Dempsey, Joe Louis, needed
THIRTEEN rounds to finally stop the lumbering ,brave but inept, Abe Simon in 1941 after
teeing off on Simon with countless COMBINATIONS, to no avail..Simon wouldn't have lasted two rounds against the Dempsey of" TOLEDO".Bobby, sorry to use the word Toledo...
Dempsey of that day and of that two-three year period was the most destructive offensive force in the history of boxing. Sam Langford said this, Damon Runyan said it ,and a host of
boxing experts also proclaimed Dempsey's greatness to the skies. At this period of time, the Manassa Mauler was a force of nature,of whom James Butler,great British Boxing
Historian,who saw EVERYONE til the 1950s,picked Dempsey as superior to Louis...Butler
knew whereof he spoke,I betcha !.
2-Think, Bobby how difficult it was [or is] for a Dempsey to punch UP to reach the jaw of a6'6-7" fighter,as Jack had to do in 1919 in Ohio [Bobby ,again I refrained fron the T word]?
It is not a naturay way to maximize your hooks and right crosses, not at all.. But the 180-
187 pound Dempsey,with this handicap, did quite well,thank you ,methinks...Fighting a man
like Willard,SEVENTY FIVE pounds heavier, and bouncing Jess like a Yo Yo was quite a feat
punching upwards, I say. Bobby I used the T word only ONCE,so now I'm going to reward myself with a cold brew. Take care, and god bless...
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:37 AM   #11
Bobby Sinn
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Bobby, with all due respect,a couple of points.
1-Jess willard though not one of histories greatest heavyweights,was most likely a giant with the greatest "beard". NEVER DROPPED BEFORE TOLEDO.Even Jack Johnson,though
37 years of age hit Willard with EVERY punch in the book for 25 rounds,and not ONCE shook
the 6ft,7" giant! Not ONCE. A later immortal puncher after Dempsey, Joe Louis, needed
THIRTEEN rounds to finally stop the lumbering ,brave but inept, Abe Simon in 1941 after
teeing off on Simon with countless COMBINATIONS, to no avail..Simon wouldn't have lasted two rounds against the Dempsey of" TOLEDO".Bobby, sorry to use the word Toledo...
Dempsey of that day and of that two-three year period was the most destructive offensive force in the history of boxing. Sam Langford said this, Damon Runyan said it ,and a host of
boxing experts also proclaimed Dempsey's greatness to the skies. At this period of time, the Manassa Mauler was a force of nature,of whom James Butler,great British Boxing
Historian,who saw EVERYONE til the 1950s,picked Dempsey as superior to Louis...Butler
knew whereof he spoke,I betcha !.
2-Think, Bobby how difficult it was [or is] for a Dempsey to punch UP to reach the jaw of a6'6-7" fighter,as Jack had to do in 1919 in Ohio [Bobby ,again I refrained fron the T word]?
It is not a naturay way to maximize your hooks and right crosses, not at all.. But the 180-
187 pound Dempsey,with this handicap, did quite well,thank you ,methinks...Fighting a man
like Willard,SEVENTY FIVE pounds heavier, and bouncing Jess like a Yo Yo was quite a feat
punching upwards, I say. Bobby I used the T word only ONCE,so now I'm going to reward myself with a cold brew. Take care, and god bless...
Bert, with all due respect, some of the better punches landed by Dempsey following the first knock down, where in fact whilst Willard was on his knees/ hunched in half standing position.

The 5 1/2 inch height disparity didnt appear to worry Jack with that amazing hook.. the first one that crunched off his jaw. I simply don't think Dempsey's physical conditioning was top notch.

I'm not about to argue with you just the same young fella.
You'd stil be sharper than me, Bert.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:41 AM   #12
Bobby Sinn
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turpinr View Post
how do you think jeffries, willard and dempsey would get on, one after the other against tyson ??
Honestly?? Dempsey took 5 rounds to flatten Carpentier, and almost hit the deck himself..

Young Tyson all the way.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:42 AM   #13
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

It wasn't really boxing at all, was it? Not as we have known it since the late 20s anyway. He looks decent destroying Willard, but it was just a wild brawl, and taking full advantage of a badly disorientated and hurt fighter.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:43 AM   #14
Bobby Sinn
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

He was dragged 15 rounds by Tommy Gibbons. A puffed up middleweight who was not that bloody fantastic in the first place.
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Old 02-20-2011, 09:17 AM   #15
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Willard vs Jeffries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Sinn View Post
He was dragged 15 rounds by Tommy Gibbons. A puffed up middleweight who was not that bloody fantastic in the first place.
Bobby, as my hero Ronald Reagan said "there you go again ",Tommy Gibbons
was one of the greatest light heavyweights in history. Badly underated.
In 106 fights ,Gibbons lost but TWO fights,and was KOd only ONE time in his
LAST bout with the PRIME Gene Tunney.He beat just about everyone he faced,and kod a tough Kid Norfolk etc.
But, Bobby if you could see a film of Tommy Gibbons flatten the British heavyweight Jack Bloomfield, with POWERFUL left hooks and right crosses,
that I was lucky to once see on youtube,a few months ago, you would praise
Gibbons to the sky. Tommy was as great as the oldtimers proclaimed...
Second, when Dempsey whipped the survival minded Tommy Gibbons in Shelby,Montana 1923, 15 rounds,it was a very impressive win for Dempsey.
Jack outboxed Tommy for 15 rounds ,while Gibbons [who no one ever kod]
before was in a purely defensive mode ! Think a superior Joey Maxim with
more firing power, and you get a Tommy Gibbons.
Try Bobby to see that film of Tommy Gibbons,flattening Jack Bloomfield in
England in 1923-4, and you will be enightened. Cheers
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