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Old 02-20-2011, 01:27 PM   #16
Il Duce
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

1972,,,,,,

Led Zeppelin,,,,,$240,000 Gross per Concert
After expenses, each member was paid $25,000 per concert performance.

A 3-night performance,,,,,,,,,$75,000 per band member, take home.
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

YES,,

Arthur Mercante could have stopped the Frazier vs. Ali I fight in the 15th Round.

After the knockdown, Joe landed a couple of bomb lefts and one right, and then
at the 1:30 mark, he landed a monster left with Ali up against the ropes, and
Muhammad was hurt bad.
Nobody would have complained.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goyourownway View Post
Smokin' Joe contracted every disease known to many just before he started losing.Not only did it slow him down,but it also greatly diminished his once incredible punch resistance.He was completely blind in both eyes,deaf in one year,and he also had an artificial pacemaker put in just to keep him going.


Still,he had all the top contenders running away from in in 1972.Only Terry Daniels and Ron Stander were willing to step up and challenge for the title.By all accounts,Geogre Foreman was terrified of him - and,if you look closely,you may even spot a runny brown substance running down the back of Foreman's right leg as he was staring Frazier in the eye's.
Foreman admitted in a KO interview that he was glad Joe stared him in the face, because his knees were shaking.
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:27 PM   #19
Il Duce
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

1971 Sparring Partners;

Ken Norton
Jim Lee Elder
Rufus Brassell
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

Wow so it have everything to do with Frazier falling off and nothing to do with the different tactics Ali emplyed? PP disagrees!!!!! Ali went all out early in FOTC and overally engaged, he fought more tactically in the rematch/rubber and earned his wins
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Old 02-20-2011, 03:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Wow so it have everything to do with Frazier falling off and nothing to do with the different tactics Ali emplyed?
That's nothing. Il Duce thinks Frazier was further from his prime than Ali in FOTC for god's sake.

Quote:
PP disagrees!!!!! Ali went all out early in FOTC and overally engaged, he fought more tactically in the rematch/rubber and earned his wins
Yeah. But it's not good manners to acknowledge this. The Frazier that dropped Quarry with a bodyshot and could have killed Bugner wasn't fit to be outside a hospital, don't you know. Little known fact is that he had to use an seeing-eye dog as early as 1973 to get around.

Last edited by Bokaj; 02-20-2011 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:03 PM   #22
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

Bok a Chu.......

Wrong, I never sad Frazier was further from his prime than Ali..

'Smokin Joe' was quicker, better defensively and punched faster in 1968 thru 1970.
Joe was great in March 1971,,,,,,,,,,but he was even better, earlier in his career.

Just ask sparring partner Rufus Brassell,,,,,I think he would know better than you and me.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:39 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Bok a Chu.......

Wrong, I never sad Frazier was further from his prime than Ali.
You said that Joe would have stopped Ali if he never been exiled and they'd met in 69. In other words you believe that what you consider a prime Frazier would have done better against a prime Ali than he did in FOTC. Ergo: Frazier must have been further from his prime in that fight, according to you.

And I can't for the world of me see how Frazier ever was faster than against Ellis, Foster and in FOTC. For me, he's noticeable sharper against Ellis than against Mathis, for example.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

In my opinion,,,,,,,,1969 Joe Frazier stops 1969 Muhammad Ali.

The 69' Joe was 'the man', no way would Ali be able to keep him off with
those 'slappy' punches.

For sure, Ali isn't wearing him down. And, the better defensive Joe gets hit with
less punches.
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

Frazier gave EVERYTHING he had in the FOTC with Ali on March 8,1971...you would have had to kill Joe that night..he was not to be denied....but he was never the same fighter after that night...
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:43 PM   #26
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

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Frazier gave EVERYTHING he had in the FOTC with Ali on March 8,1971...you would have had to kill Joe that night..he was not to be denied....but he was never the same fighter after that night...

Rocky J,,,,,Correct,,,,,,,,,that was Joe's 'pinnacle'

Much like Jack Nicklaus winning the Master's at an older age.
He greatest triumph, but not his 'prime time'.

Same with Joe,, he did win his greatest victory, a notch below his
prime. His timed hand speed in 1969, was faster than in 1971.

Same too, when he ran the 100-yard dash, and the 440-yard sprint.

If the 11th round of the FOTC happened in 1969, it would have been stopped.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:14 PM   #27
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

Was Joe Frazier 100% or capable of being 100% in March 1971.

He was not the same after April 1970. He broke his ankle in Las Vegas, and
was out of training for several months.

Rufus Brassell, did say in an Ebony interview, that Joe had lost his lateral movement
after that injury. And it limited his torque when throwing the super hard shots.

Before that injury, he did move side-to-side much better, and was a harder target to hit.
While helping Smokin Joe train for Jimmy Ellis in February 1970, Brassell pointed out
that Joe stayed low, and was cat-quick in moving from side-to-side.
The angles made Joe impossible to hit square, and when you tried to hit him, you
could easily leave yourself open, as he would shift to one side or the other.
You would either eat a left hook to the jaw, or a right hand to the body.

Last edited by Il Duce; 02-20-2011 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 02-20-2011, 08:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

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Originally Posted by Il Duce View Post
Was Joe Frazier 100% or capable of being 100% in March 1971.

He was not the same after April 1970. He broke his ankle in Las Vegas, and
was out of training for several months.

Rufus Brassell, did say in an Ebony interview, that Joe had lost his lateral movement
after that injury. And it limited his torque when throwing the super hard shots.

Before that injury, he did move side-to-side much better, and was a harder target to hit.
Interesting.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:09 AM   #29
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

I thought Frazier deserved the second fight. Ali held far to much. There are over 140 extended clinches initiated by Ali in that fight. I think that qualifies as excessive. Its the worst bout of the the three. I thought the third fight was a lot more clear for Ali than most people. The rounds that Frazier won he did so very convincingly but in my opinion these were few and far between.
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Old 02-21-2011, 01:32 AM   #30
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Default Re: Quick question about Ali-Frazier fights

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Wow so it have everything to do with Frazier falling off and nothing to do with the different tactics Ali emplyed? PP disagrees!!!!! Ali went all out early in FOTC and overally engaged, he fought more tactically in the rematch/rubber and earned his wins
Thank you. Bojak covered this pretty much too though.

People who simply say Frazier declined aren't being completely objective.
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