If Jeffries defeated Johnson....

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

How about a real weather report that indicated a record high. I have one here, and its below 100 degrees. Also 100 degrees in April??? Remain ignorant if you must! You are wrong again. Read Below:

Like most of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], Havana's has a tropical climate, which is characterized as being non-arid and having pleasant year-round average temperatures. Havana does not experience extreme heat or cold, but due to its location and climate, it is susceptible to violent storms. Other places with tropical climates are Hawaii, parts of Florida, and Southeast [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

Temperature

The temperatures in Havana are fairly consistent for the entire. The average monthly low is 70 degrees F (21 degrees C) and the average high temperature is 85 degrees F (29 degrees C). The coolest months are January and February (64 to 79 degrees F; 18 to 26 degrees C) and the hottest months are July and August (75 to 89 degrees F; 24 to 32 degrees C). November, December and January through April is cooler than May through October. Havana's record high is 97 degrees F (36 degrees C) and the record low is 50 degrees F (10 degrees C).

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I think the simple answer is that those official records are temperatures taken in the shade (the standard method of recording temperatures).

The temperature in the ring, or at ringside, may well have registered at considerably more than 100 degrees.

[cross_trainer]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I disagree.
I think that's a simplistic view of people of the past and their relationship to racial rivalry and the injustices and hatred of the "race issue" in general.

I don't think anyone would hate Jeffries or make him a villain simply because he won the fight.
At the time the fight was bound to cause riots whoever won (as happened), but with the passing of time the victor is only remembered for his own performance, not blamed for the stuipdity of people who use the fight to demonstrate racial hatred.

If anything Jeffries would have been more respected and rated as a fighter among black community because he beat the best black fighter around. Just as Marciano seemed to gain respect from blacks for his victories over many of the best black fighters.

Winners usually get respect, especially if their win is a come back win over a good prime fighter.
The stupid racial stuff surrounding the fight is so obviously nothing to do with the sporting contest of two men, that there's no way Jeffries would become a focal point for racism in boxing. People weren't that stupid.

I do not mean to malign people in the past. Far from it.

I submit that people are still sensitive when it comes to race in boxing--and about this fight. In popular culture (at least insofar as Jeffries and Johnson have managed to appear in it at all), many still remember Jeffries as a racist champ that Johnson clobbered. If that sort of behavior is stupid, then the stupidity has crossed generational lines. Jeffries-Johnson generates vitriol among a group of people whose great-great-grandfathers probably didn't even watch the fight.

For similar reasons, non-German casual boxing fans still remember Schmeling as a Nazi.

[eslubin]

Originally Posted by Il Duce

What was the question,,,,,,,if James Jeffries defeated Jack Johnson.

Jeffries retires, and goes back to his farm, where he wanted to stay in the first place.

Of course a heavyweight championship would take place, between 'two' white boys.

Jack Johnson would have to start all over again, with Sam Langford, Sam McVea and Joe Jeannette.

If Jeffries won convincingly I don't think he'd stay permanently retired. If he could be drawn out once he could be again.

Looking back, his backers should have insisted on the fight being a 10-rounder, so if Jeff went the distance the crooks could have given it to him on the cards anyway like they did to Marvin Hart. Making it unlimited rounds or 45 or 100 or whatever it was made the task impossible in Jeffries's anxious mind.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROUiZnnFfAw[/ame]

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[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by Il Duce

What was the question,,,,,,,if James Jeffries defeated Jack Johnson.

Jeffries retires, and goes back to his farm, where he wanted to stay in the first place.

Of course a heavyweight championship would take place, between 'two' white boys.

Jack Johnson would have to start all over again, with Sam Langford, Sam McVea and Joe Jeannette.

in those days, when the champion retires, there became a number of claims. First, it is claimed by the previous Champion. Jack Johnson would be a champion still. Second, the champion generally picked a successor to fight for the title. Presumably, Jeffries would have picked two white fighters to fight for the title, although i wouldnt be surpised if the coloured line ended with Jeffries win. And thirdly, the Europeans, British or Australians would be entitle to have their own champs.

So realistically, we could have had Langford Jeanette for the recognised championship in Europe, Later Johnson MC vey might have happened in Australia a Gunboat Smith or someone as recognised champ after Jeffries.

The interesting thing is that in those days, whenever there was disputing versions of the title, something very strange happened, they actually fought each other!. It would have been all sorted soon, and to be honest, I would be surprised if Johnson didnt emerge as the champion.

[Boucher]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

How about a real weather report that indicated a record high. I have one here, and its below 100 degrees. Also 100 degrees in April??? Remain ignorant if you must! You are wrong again. Read Below:

Like most of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], Havana's has a tropical climate, which is characterized as being non-arid and having pleasant year-round average temperatures. Havana does not experience extreme heat or cold, but due to its location and climate, it is susceptible to violent storms. Other places with tropical climates are Hawaii, parts of Florida, and Southeast [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].

Temperature

The temperatures in Havana are fairly consistent for the entire. The average monthly low is 70 degrees F (21 degrees C) and the average high temperature is 85 degrees F (29 degrees C). The coolest months are January and February (64 to 79 degrees F; 18 to 26 degrees C) and the hottest months are July and August (75 to 89 degrees F; 24 to 32 degrees C). November, December and January through April is cooler than May through October. Havana's record high is 97 degrees F (36 degrees C) and the record low is 50 degrees F (10 degrees C).

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

For the purposes of weather reports.
Temperature's are NOT taken in the sun, they are taken in the shade. This of course, dramatically raises the figures.
Sloppy research on your part.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

I think the simple answer is that those official records are temperatures taken in the shade (the standard method of recording temperatures).

The temperature in the ring, or at ringside, may well have registered at considerably more than 100 degrees.

Unforgiven, do you really believe it was over 100 degrees in April? I am telling you this is a myth. In fact the crowd is sitting fine without fanning themselves as they did vs. Willard and Dempsey in a hot July day.

[Boucher]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Unforgiven, do you really believe it was over 100 degrees in April? I am telling you this is a myth. In fact the crowd is sitting fine without fanning themselves as they did vs. Willard and Dempsey in a hot July day.

Where would you place Jeffries if he had won the fight?
I have posted my thoughts, how about yours?
I am guessing, Mount Olympus?

[ironchamp]

Originally Posted by McGrain

The most interesting upshot is that Mendoza has to spend all his time building Johnson up as a great champ. Which is hysterical.

He was a great champ..

Where do you rank Johnson?

[Boucher]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Unforgiven, do you really believe it was over 100 degrees in April? I am telling you this is a myth. In fact the crowd is sitting fine without fanning themselves as they did vs. Willard and Dempsey in a hot July day.

"It was hotter than hell in there".
Jess Willard.

[Il Duce]

His face would have been carved in stone in Mount Rushmore, Keystone, South Dakota

He would have been on a stamp.

A holiday named after him.

The Jeffries Memorial in Washingston D.C.,,,,,,,a large white fist

A U.S.S. James J. Jeffries battleship

James J. Jeffries 'Champburger Palace's' on each Main Street in Middle America.

Just for starters,,,,,,,

[Boucher]

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MENDOZA.
Eat your heart out.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Boucher

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MENDOZA.
Eat your heart out.

Thanks I jave seen ESPN Classic air this many times. They say Jeffries was 37. The rounds are cut. For example the first round of footage does not even last 1:30 seconds. If you buy the film, you get a better idea of what happened.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by Boucher

Where would you place Jeffries if he had won the fight?
I have posted my thoughts, how about yours?
I am guessing, Mount Olympus?

I already have Jefffies in the top 5. Johnson is not in my top 10. Had Jeffries won under the circumstances, I would say top 1 or 2.

[Boucher]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

I already have Jefffies in the top 5. Johnson is not in my top 10. Had Jeffries won under the circumstances, I would say top 1 or 2.

I think you could make a case for top 2,although Jeffries does not make my top ten at the moment ,beating a prime Johnson, who does , lifts him into the stratosphere.imo
Who do you have in front of Jeffries?
Who behind?

[Boucher]

Originally Posted by Mendoza

Thanks I jave seen ESPN Classic air this many times. They say Jeffries was 37. The rounds are cut. For example the first round of footage does not even last 1:30 seconds. If you buy the film, you get a better idea of what happened.

They also say Johnson was 212 lbs instead of 208lbs ,but the footage ,though abbreviated, is unalterable.
The complete film is not available, but many versions are out there.
I bought mine about 25 -30 years ago.

Why no DSQ ,when Jeffries was helped back in the ring after the second knockdown ?
Could it be because Rickard was having his debut as a referee?

ps,Will you be revealing your source regarding Dempsey's violation ,in the other thread started by Aussie Fighter?