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Old 03-15-2011, 06:40 PM   #16
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Results

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
Tyson was a very popular mainstream boxer, and I will admit with no shame, due to a naive but sweet innocence, growing up, I was suckered into the hype. But over the years, your realize the phenomenon that you thought was totally unique, had happened time and again in boxing.

John L, somewhat ironically Jeffries, Dempsey, Louis, Liston and Foreman; were all at one time or another given the unbeatable brooding monster build up before Tyson.

But Tyson was the last and still has his fans and admirers and as long as he is the last truly global boxing superstar, I guess he always will.

But to have a grown up debate on something like this, you need a little more substance in your debate to truly justify Tyson's victory here, as being anything other than name recognition and popularity.

Because there is part of me that thinks Tyson could of been one hell of a London Prize fighter, and I think it is a sound argument, but nobody in the Tyson camp, has put the argument across. Which is disappointing and yes shows the flaw in the Tournament.
The thing about LPR is that one of the most important things is the speed to land the first punch. With no gloves, even the smaller punchers presumably have much larger punching power. this is why, even though size is still an advantage, many of the smaller fighters were able to hold the title. In fact, once gloves came in, champions started to get bigger and Fitzsimmons (and arguably Tommy Burns) are the only two light heavies who were ever able to win the title. IMO, speed of punch is more important in this type of fight (it is one of the reasons why i think Ali is grossly underated under these rules and would surprise you). But leaving that aside, it is quite possible that Tyson is faster than Jeffries and will beat jeffries to the punch. And Tyson's headweaving will make it near impossible for Jeffries to land clean and there is a real danger of Jeffries brittle hands having troubles. And Tyson from memory was usually pretty accurate with his shots particularly you would think on Jeffries who was open to being hit it seems. Stylistically, under LPR Tyson actually has many advantages. In fact arguably he is a better chance against Jeffries than under Queensbury rules. I think Jeffries is grossly overestimated under the LPR rules.
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Winner...

Any mythical tournament where Mike Tyson comes out on top of all the other all time greats is bunk. I don't care what the rules are.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Winner...

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Any mythical tournament where Mike Tyson comes out on top of all the other all time greats is bunk. I don't care what the rules are.
So which opponent beats Tyson? Fitzsimmons, Dempsey or Jeffries
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Winner...

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
So which opponent beats Tyson? Fitzsimmons, Dempsey or Jeffries
i don't know...jeffries cut his gums out of his teeth during a fight, tyson quit against holyfield after a couple of headbutts. modern rules i've little doubt tyson destroys him but in THIS type of fight completely different skills and attributes are required
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:19 AM   #20
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Winner...

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So let me get this straight, the Dinosaur Patrol didn't get their way with this thing, so now they're going to do it again but only count the votes they think "deserve" to be counted? The entire premise was mostly just an excuse to glorify a bunch of sub-cruiserweight old timers in the first place. If you're not even going to allow real voting, you may as well just post "OLD TIME BOXERS WERE BETTER, MY DADDY SAYS SO" and skip the pretense of legitimacy.

Most of the old timers never actually fought under LPR rules either, but they'll somehow be better at it because... why exactly? Because they lived a few decades closer to when people actually fought that way? I see reams and reams of shit about how punching power doesn't matter because quick knockouts don't happen under LRP rules, but only as long as we're talking about some glorified super middleweight the Dinosaur Patrol is in love with. When it comes to Ali or some other modern fighter not known as a big puncher, well, that's totally different for some reason.

Honestly, Ali probably should have won it. Athletic, elusive, granite-chinned. Fitz beats him? Hahaha, how many punches does it take for any 165 pound man to put Ali away for thirty? More importantly, how many days of flailing at the air does it take for him to land that many?
One of the things, which does puzzle me about LPR rules fights is the KO thing. Every single fight i have ever seen involving two guys who can really fight starts and ends the same way. A 5 or 6 punch combination that knocks the opponent down and usually out.

And this is fighters who are not at the upper echelon of world class, and not even heavyweight fighters. Admittedly the chins of guys they are fighting are not ever anything to write home about, but still it is hard to imagine someone like Tyson, Lennox, even guys like buster douglas or Frank Bruno throwing barenuckle punches and not scoring early KOs.

Yet, as Janitor points out, this is the norm not the exception. If this is the case, wouldnt it tend to suggest that maybe the punching power of teh LPR era had not really reached World class Level? In fact, with poor teaching skills available, it is possible that it had not really reached national level or even modern professional level?

Obviously Sullivan and Fitz were exceptions, but it is hard to imagine modern fighters at the top level struggling so much in bare knuckle fights. Although perhaps, others who may have more exposure to higher level fighters than i have in bareknuckle situations may be aware of fights where the skilled fighter has not been able to hurt his opponent with bareknuckles.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:47 AM   #21
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Winner...

I think this would come down to 3 things
1. Size. Reach advantage still matters
2. Who's hands can take the most punshment. Gloves areto protect the hands
3. Who is the most durabile. Not who has the best chin but who can get knocked down and get back up, again and again.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Winner...

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Originally Posted by ripcity View Post
I think this would come down to 3 things
1. Size. Reach advantage still matters
2. Who's hands can take the most punshment. Gloves areto protect the hands
3. Who is the most durabile. Not who has the best chin but who can get knocked down and get back up, again and again.
Basically, it comes down to these , and if they are as big as this guys ,you probably win .

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Old 03-16-2011, 04:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Winner...

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Basically, it comes down to these , and if they are as big as this guys ,you probably win .

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First of all what the hell is that^?
Being bigger means more punching power. Punching power is Mass (the size of the source) + Speed of the punch + Distance the punch travles.
Also having longer arms than one's oppoent means that you can hit and not be hit. So like I said size matters.
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: Heavyweight Tournament with a Twist: The Results

[quote]
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Originally Posted by Duranium View Post
A caveman didnt win it so janitard wants it tearing down and wiping from history, and GayBooze is going to do another one but only count the votes of people who type in 'ye olde english' font

Absolutley horrendous voting in the tournament. Fitz beating Ali, Corbett beating Foreman, Burns beating Spinks, Jeffries beating Liston, Dempsey beating Holmes, Jeffries beating Johnson. i dont know how you dare complain, Janitard.
If you botherd to look, you would see that I wrote that post before I knew what the outcome of the tournament would be. It became obvious prety early on that most of the people voting didn't know what London Prize Ring rules were and I said so before the results of the first round came out.

The irony of this is that you acuse me of some form of delusion while people like you argue vociferously about the outcome of a fight where you don't even understand the ruleset. That is taking dogma to a whole new level.

Quote:
So glad Tyson won it, i knew that was the one modern popular mainstream name people were praying didnt crash the party
To be honest with you, there are probably a number of fighters from Tysons own era who would have donbe better under this ruleset.

The only people who think that Tyson was "the modern fighter most likley to crash the party", are people who get their entire stock of knowledge about bareknuckle fighting from the Mitch Green street fight.
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