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Old 02-23-2011, 12:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

Nope.
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Old 02-23-2011, 02:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

Yeah, just.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

Not me

The best HW of his day for sure... but his day was many many days ago.

At 6' with a 76" reach and 215-220 Lbs he would not be considered a big man in most of the eras that followed his own. In his own era he was huge. Most of the time he was heavier, taller, and had a longer reach than his opponent. Honestly, he was never the smaller man in the ring.

I see him getting bullied by guys like Foreman, Bowe, Lewis, and some others. No shame in that though.

Tyson would be able to slip his punches or even take many of the ones that might land. Tyson's hand speed would be a huge problem for Jeffries. Tyson's punches would land often... if that's the case Jeffries would not last 10 rounds.

Ali too fast, too smart.

Holmes, Louis and Holyfield? On a different level IMO.

So, what about vs. guys like...

Marciano, Frazier, Charles, Walcott, Dempsey, Tunney, Liston, etc? I think Jeffries fits right in with some of these guys due to his combo of size, power, durability, overall skill, etc.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

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Originally Posted by bodhi View Post
Nah, I donīt rank fighters on things like "skill" or "h2h". Thatīs even more speculation and guessing than ranking them on resume and achievement.
I agree.
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

I have him in my top five.

This is more based on what he acomplished relative to his own era, than the assumption that he would be sucesful against heavyweights from later eras.

Simply put, what he did was incredible.

The guy was figghting fringe contenders in 15 round bouts prety much from his profesional debut.

He was going up against the best fighters in the division a matter of months after his profesional debut with only a handful of fights.

He dominated a dangerous heavyweight champion with only a dozen or so fights under his belt then went on to fight the two best contenders within the next twelve months, taking one of the fights with his left hand out of action.

He beat the top top contenders of the day (Fitz, Corbett, Sharkey, Ruhlin) twice each and gave a rematch wenever the outcome of the fight was close.

This was an exceptional champion
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Old 02-23-2011, 03:38 PM   #21
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

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he'd make my top 10 White HW list
Same here!
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

1 Ali
2 Louis
3 Sullivan
4 Jeffries
5 Marciano
6 Dempsey
7 Johnson
8 Holmes
9 Tunney

I could move Jeffries up or down one notch ....

IMO, Jeffries won the title from a very dangerous heavy (Fitzsimmons) while Jim was still a work in progress; defeated a #1 contender (Sharkey, off of wins over McCoy, Ruhlin and Corbett) with a lame dominant arm; beat Corbett (described as giving his best performance since beating Sullivan in 1892) despite major corner-chaos; was recognized as advancing in his skills when he stopped Ruhlin; defeated a Fitzsimmons who impressed observers as being a wonder for his age and giving a performance that would have beat anyone but Jeffries; and was described as greatly improved in aggression, punching form and footwork when he rematched with Corbett.

I see no reason not to consider Jeffries as a monster champion.

As for size -- I am going to wax Aristotelean -- quantity is an accident, and substance is potential to recieve accidence. So what belongs to Jeffries substantially is the potential for size. That he was 6' 1-1/2", 218 lb in 1904 does not mean that he'll be that size, either in height or weight, in the 1990's. There are many random causes that can effect size -- it's not impossible Jeffries might turn out the same size or smaller -- but that does not mean one cannot think of Jeffries size in another time as being per his potential for size, realized in proportion to the era's opportunity to attain size, in they same proportion as he realized size according to his own eras opportunity to realize size.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I have him in my top five.

This is more based on what he acomplished relative to his own era, than the assumption that he would be sucesful against heavyweights from later eras.

Simply put, what he did was incredible.

The guy was figghting fringe contenders in 15 round bouts prety much from his profesional debut.

He was going up against the best fighters in the division a matter of months after his profesional debut with only a handful of fights.

He dominated a dangerous heavyweight champion with only a dozen or so fights under his belt then went on to fight the two best contenders within the next twelve months, taking one of the fights with his left hand out of action.

He beat the top top contenders of the day (Fitz, Corbett, Sharkey, Ruhlin) twice each and gave a rematch wenever the outcome of the fight was close.

This was an exceptional champion
Guilaha ,and Mendoza agree with you, they both have him at no 4.
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: How Many Have Jeffries In Their Top Ten ?

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Originally Posted by guilalah View Post
As for size -- I am going to wax Aristotelean -- quantity is an accident, and substance is potential to recieve accidence. So what belongs to Jeffries substantially is the potential for size. That he was 6' 1-1/2", 218 lb in 1904 does not mean that he'll be that size, either in height or weight, in the 1990's. There are many random causes that can effect size -- it's not impossible Jeffries might turn out the same size or smaller -- but that does not mean one cannot think of Jeffries size in another time as being per his potential for size, realized in proportion to the era's opportunity to attain size, in they same proportion as he realized size according to his own eras opportunity to realize size.
To weight over 215 lbs back then, with the training regimes that were the norm, you had to be a seriously big heavyweight.

Bob Armstrong weighed under 200lbs and he looks like he ought to weigh about 220!
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