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Old 11-08-2012, 08:17 PM   #181
Vince Voltage
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

What bugs me about Ali fans is that they basically see Ali as undefeated. His losses to Frazier are Norton are excused because he wasn't the same after exile. Then losing to the other three was because he was old. I don't buy it. He was close to prime when fighting Frazier and Norton, and even old, shot ATGs shouldn't be losing to Leon Spinks, who wasn't a bad fighter, but completely green. Ali's losses count.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:36 PM   #182
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by Vince Voltage View Post
What bugs me about Ali fans is that they basically see Ali as undefeated. His losses to Frazier are Norton are excused because he wasn't the same after exile. Then losing to the other three was because he was old. I don't buy it. He was close to prime when fighting Frazier and Norton, and even old, shot ATGs shouldn't be losing to Leon Spinks, who wasn't a bad fighter, but completely green. Ali's losses count.
Of course they do, but you cannot deny the significant difference between 67' - 71' versions. The three years really done a number on him.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:50 PM   #183
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

He gets his fair share of criticism.

He is far from 'Loved by All'.

Accomplishments were great, but the lay-off from 1967 thru 1970 a bit overblown.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:25 PM   #184
Vince Voltage
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

yeah yeah yeah...the layoff did a number on him....blah blah blah....if only...if only

He warmed up for Frazier on two of the toughest guys out there. He was ready. And he got his ass kicked all over the place.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:06 AM   #185
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Old 11-09-2012, 12:12 AM   #186
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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and even old, shot ATGs shouldn't be losing to Leon Spinks, who wasn't a bad fighter, but completely green.
Really plenty of old ATG fighters lose to nobodies
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:54 AM   #187
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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I dont know what your talking about. The anti Ali brigade on here has a relentless, dedicated army of dickslices who create threads sprewing outright lies, quoting them and citing the source with nothing but random google images.

On top of that there are a great amount of hipsters on this forum(like on any nowadays), whom Ali is too mainstream to support.

And then theres Dad's Army, exclusive to the classic forum. A bunch of old wrinklys still aghast at a black man talking out of turn.
The fierce anti Ali criticism I have is partly because the "loyality" of his fans is just as fierce.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:24 AM   #188
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince Voltage View Post
What bugs me about Ali fans is that they basically see Ali as undefeated. His losses to Frazier are Norton are excused because he wasn't the same after exile. Then losing to the other three was because he was old. I don't buy it. He was close to prime when fighting Frazier and Norton, and even old, shot ATGs shouldn't be losing to Leon Spinks, who wasn't a bad fighter, but completely green. Ali's losses count.


Obviously,I consider ALL five of Ali's losses legitimate.A loss is a loss,but the last three to Spinks,Holmes and Berbick came long after he should have been retired and making appearances in a ring in a suit,and not shorts and gloves. His first two to Frazier and Norton were the only 'Legacy' losses,in my book. Muhammad had gone more downhill between 1973 - 1978 than he had between 1967 - 1973 in my opinion.

Last edited by Stevie G; 11-10-2012 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:33 AM   #189
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Really plenty of old ATG fighters lose to nobodies
Not as much as you'd think in the heavyweight division, especially if we're talking about ATGs (Top 10) Mike Tyson being one of very few examples against Danny Williams and Kevin Mcbride
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:41 AM   #190
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Obviously not being round on ESB in 07 means I don't really have a good gauge of the sort of criticism (if any) he received around that time, however it would certainly suggest it was a rarity if present at all. Right now it is mainly trolls that really criticise Ali, but his fans seem to overlook some of his horrendously dirty tactics (Cooper bout was a disgrace) and have the nerve to rightfully argue decisions that did go his way, that really shouldn't have (Norton 3, Jimmy Young) and even wrongfully argue decisions that didn't go his way (FOTC, Norton 1 (mainly trolls)). With someone that had it all his own way, it just doesn't seem right that people try to give Ali even more free passes than he has already been given.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:44 AM   #191
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Muhammad Ali may have been criticized even more, if he continued in his
profession in 1967 thru 1970.

He was actually trying to promote 'second' bouts with Karl Mildenberger II and
Floyd Patterson II for 1967.

That alone, would have 'discolored' his Championship.

Yes, he was scheduled to make defenses versus #1 Thad Spencer and #5 Oscar Bonavena
- but rematches with Karl and Floyd were not going to be well accepted
as legitimate defenses.

He well may have retired at the beginning of 1968, just like he said he had wanted.

Once Joe Frazier made his 'mark' by defeating Jimmy Ellis, Mr. Ali would have been forced
into coming back anyway.

Too much money to turn down.
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:46 AM   #192
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pachilles View Post
I dont know what your talking about. The anti Ali brigade on here has a relentless, dedicated army of dickslices who create threads sprewing outright lies, quoting them and citing the source with nothing but random google images.

On top of that there are a great amount of hipsters on this forum(like on any nowadays), whom Ali is too mainstream to support.

And then theres Dad's Army, exclusive to the classic forum. A bunch of old wrinklys still aghast at a black man talking out of turn.
Holy shit!!!!
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