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Old 11-16-2007, 06:32 PM   #31
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
I donīt have a Top 15-list off-head, but I would say at 7th ca., and you?
#5. 7 is perfectly reasonable though.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:33 PM   #32
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Where do you guys rate Kenny Bugger? I'd say somewhere between Tony Musto and Danny McAlinden.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:33 PM   #33
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Yeah, thatīs what I mean...


As an Ali fan myself and having a vast collection of books, mags, etc I have found some discrepencies with his story. My latest investigation involves the "gold medal in river" tale, of which, the earliest telling appears in the mostly dreadful piece of propaganda* that was the Richard Durham book in 1976. It's puzzling me why Ali would wait till that time to relay this story.




* Although it does contain some nuggets. The Frazier conversation and Ali's writings to Betrand Russell among them.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:35 PM   #34
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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#5. 7 is perfectly reasonable though.




You know itīs always hard making such a list... but with a 5th place I can live with...
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
As an Ali fan myself and having a vast collection of books, mags, etc I have found some discrepencies with his story. My latest investigation involves the "gold medal in river" tale, of which, the earliest telling appears in the mostly dreadful piece of propaganda* that was the Richard Durham book in 1976. It's puzzling me why Ali would wait till that time to relay this story.




* Although it does contain some nuggets. The Frazier conversation and Ali's writings to Betrand Russell among them.

Very mindful from you, perhaps you noticed it, some months ago I had a long discussion with Clay II about some points (incl. the thing you mentioned now) and you know what a final answer I got? That Iīm just an Ali- hater...
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

I see Conteh's kicking the usual ass.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:41 PM   #37
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Nice avatar mate.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by Jack Dempsey
Can you criticise Ali without invoking the wrath of the Ali lovers?? is he untouchable?

I see very few negative comments about the man and his career without there being a huge backlash.

Can he be criticised fairly and justly or is he just too damn good???
If anything Ali is a massive target for criticism. He cops a lot just because he is Ali. He has his defenders just like every fighter.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
As an Ali fan myself and having a vast collection of books, mags, etc I have found some discrepencies with his story. My latest investigation involves the "gold medal in river" tale, of which, the earliest telling appears in the mostly dreadful piece of propaganda* that was the Richard Durham book in 1976. It's puzzling me why Ali would wait till that time to relay this story.
I'm quite happy that that story is BS.




Quote:
* Although it does contain some nuggets. The Frazier conversation and Ali's writings to Betrand Russell among them.
That is golden. Isn't Frazier waring a lime green cowboy outfit during that conversation? That sure as shit didn't make it into the film.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
No, seriously, even the best (I have him at 2nd best HW ever) ever canīt be untouchable, everyone has/ had their weaknesses, but with Ali here on ESB itīs really almost funny...
Oh geez get a clue. Ali gets a **** load of criticism at ESB, way more than any other forum, or among experts etc. People feel they are somehow better for going against popular opinion, such as people ranking Robinson top 5 at best, or Ali the same (at HW). Just because you don't like Ali, doesn't mean that every time someone praises him you have to come out with these sort of comments - "but with Ali here on ESB itīs really almost funny".

I could make exactly the same argument about Marciano considering the nuthugging that goes on for him, but in reality he has plenty of critics too, just like Ali.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:49 PM   #41
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Nice avatar mate.
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:51 PM   #42
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by hellfire_508
Oh geez get a clue. Ali gets a **** load of criticism at ESB, way more than any other forum, or among experts etc. People feel they are somehow better for going against popular opinion, such as people ranking Robinson top 5 at best, or Ali the same (at HW). Just because you don't like Ali, doesn't mean that every time someone praises him you have to come out with these sort of comments - "but with Ali here on ESB itīs really almost funny".

I could make exactly the same argument about Marciano considering the nuthugging that goes on for him, but in reality he has plenty of critics too, just like Ali.

Youīre now exactly like one of the posters MDWC mentioned. Just because I wrote, that some fans overact with him, and crank up the usual Ali- propaganda, doesnīt automatically mean that I donīt like him. The only thing I donīt like about Ali is, SOME of his nuthugging fans. Get it now? And to Marciano: 49-0-0, thatīs all what it need to be said. He beat all challenges he had to fight, and he won always in spectacular fashion (never needed the judges, KOīd so many ranked fighters, etc.), he doesnīt need nuthugging (although there are also many like from every ATG- fighter)...
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:54 PM   #43
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Where do you guys rate Kenny Bugger? I'd say somewhere between Tony Musto and Danny McAlinden.
I'm feeling the love for Kenny Bugger MDWC
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:06 PM   #44
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

No ATG is above criticisim but there are a few that rise above the rest for different reasons,Ali was one of those but so was Louis,Marciano, Dempsey and a few others and they all had there weaknesses, Ali fans think that he could actually fly around the ring and was a superman but we know that he was human and suffers today from a long career and taking a lot of punches, anyway I think Ali is a must for anyones top 5

Last edited by Radar; 09-22-2006 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:08 PM   #45
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Default Re: Is Ali untouchable as far as criticism goes??

Rocky is defeneded every bit as much as Ali I think.
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