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Old 11-16-2007, 06:49 PM   #1
booradley
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Default Mayweather's place in history

This has probably been done before, but let's try it again just for shits and giggles.

In the general forum a lot of those guys, especially younger guys, act as if Floyd Mayweather JR is some kind of a god. And, Floyd himself has supposedly claimed at times to be the best ever. So, I'm interested in hearing some of you state your opinions on who beats PBF at what weight. Many of you are far more knowlegable about boxing history than I am, but I'll name a few, and say why. Since we're talking about historic perspective, let's assume these are all 15 round fights.

130# I don't think Mayweather faced anybody at 130 who was the kind of monster in that division that Arguello was. Plus, this was AA's best weight, but PBF was still pretty young. Floyd would look good for several rounds, but somewhere mid-fight Alexis start to time PBF with jabs, straight rights up the middle, and hooks to the body. About round 10 Arguello steps on the gas, and closes the show in 13 or 14.

135# Duran: nuff said. Arguello has a chance here too.

140# Considering the shots Pryor took from Arguello, there is no way Floyd knocks Pryor out. At his best Pryor would KO Floyd in 12-14 rounds.

147# There are at least 3 welterweights Mayweather would have no chance against. Go ahead and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I think Robsinon would just beat the living shit out of Floyd from the opening bell. Lenoard at 147 could do everything Floyd does only better, and he had more power. SRL would just be to much. The psychological beating would be as bad as the physical! Tommy Hearns would be a freaking nightmare for PBF. At 147 Hearns was fast and had serious one-punch KO power: Hearns KO7 Mayweather. The version of Duran that beat SRL beats Floyd convincingly.

Okay, your turn,
Boo
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Old 11-16-2007, 06:58 PM   #2
Nick Balsamo
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

If a past his prime De la Hoya can fight him to a draw (which is my scorecard) then a prime Dela Hoya can beat him.

What about fasthanded punchers like Donald Curry ?

Would Mayweather beat a 154 lbs Terry Norris ?
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Old 11-16-2007, 08:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

This is my opinion regarding fantasy matchups at the weight classes he's fought at, who would beat him or at least be a 50/50 fight.

I'm not qualified enough to speak on Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Mickey Walker, Tommy Ryan, Barbados Joe Walcott, etc. So I'll let the real experts deal with that.

130: Nobody (this is an interesting one because Arguello, Chavez, and Nelson all give him good fights, but I do believe Floyd matches up well with them at this weight despite never fighting somebody of their caliber)

135: Duran, Whitaker, Armstrong, Williams, Ortiz, Chavez (Arguello and Mosley both have the ability to beat him at lightweight, but I would make Floyd the favorite)

140: Pryor, Whitaker, Chavez, Benitez

147: Robinson, Leonard, Armstrong, Griffith, Hearns, Napoles, Duran, Burley, Benitez, Whitaker (De La Hoya, Rodriguez, Basilio, Mosley, Curry are all interesting fights as well)

154: Hearns, McCallum, Norris, Wright, quite a few others

As far as his place in boxing history goes, I think he's an all time great. He's won 6 world titles in 5 weight classes which is a very impressive feat. He's remained undefeated while having faced a dozen or so world champions, including De La Hoya, Castillo, Corrales, Hernandez, Judah, Gatti, and Chavez. However, I don't place him in the same class as Leonard, Duran, Hearns, Chavez, etc because I feel he has more to prove. He has only faced one all time great who was not in his prime. I want to see him test himself like a true champion against the young, hungry fighters at welterweight such as Miguel Cotto, Paul Williams, Kermit Cintron, and Antonio Margarito. His fight with Ricky Hatton should be a good start to solidifying a truly memorable legacy. He's got all the talent in the world, I just want to see him display it against the very best.

Last edited by brooklyn1550; 11-16-2007 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

oh come on, the bout with Walker should favor Walker by more than a mile. If Walker can whip heavyweight butt, than I dont think Mayweather would be much of a problem.
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

My opinion on Mayweather is that his skills are amongst the best ever seen, Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Jones jr and Mayweather are all those fighters who come once in a generation and can do things in the ring no one else can. I don't see it as too big of a stretch to say he is the best ever in terms of skills and talent. His accomplishments however don't yet match his talent, and probably never will. He cops alot of criticism at the moment for his choice of opponents but I think its exaggerated.

For example, his foray into the welterweight division is criticized alot but I personally think he did it really well. Beat the former champ to earn his shot then he shutout the current champion. Nothing wrong with that. Margarito was the #1 contender but hindsight showed he isn't as good as he was hyped up to be. Fighters who struggle with Clottey and lose to Williams aren't going to beat Mayweather.

I see him as the best ever at 130, although theres very little between him, Arguello and Chavez. At 135, 140 etc etc he isn't the best but in terms of head to head he ranks pretty highly, he just didn't demonstrate his skills against to many opponents in that weight class to warrant a high ranking. His overall resume is pretty good and he's definently an all time great in my books, top 40 for sure. If he gets a win over Hatton, Cotto and perhaps Spinks he will jump considerably. Just have to wait and see
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Old 11-16-2007, 10:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

I'm am not a Mayweather fan, but I do grant him a grudging respect. I think he's probably the most skilled pure boxer on the planet right now. His attitude and sometimes his choice of opponents that pisses me off.

It's interesting that a couple people give Arguello a better chance at 135 than 130. Why is that?

Boo
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe
My opinion on Mayweather is that his skills are amongst the best ever seen, Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Jones jr and Mayweather are all those fighters who come once in a generation and can do things in the ring no one else can. I don't see it as too big of a stretch to say he is the best ever in terms of skills and talent. His accomplishments however don't yet match his talent, and probably never will. He cops alot of criticism at the moment for his choice of opponents but I think its exaggerated.

For example, his foray into the welterweight division is criticized alot but I personally think he did it really well. Beat the former champ to earn his shot then he shutout the current champion. Nothing wrong with that. Margarito was the #1 contender but hindsight showed he isn't as good as he was hyped up to be. Fighters who struggle with Clottey and lose to Williams aren't going to beat Mayweather.

I see him as the best ever at 130, although theres very little between him, Arguello and Chavez. At 135, 140 etc etc he isn't the best but in terms of head to head he ranks pretty highly, he just didn't demonstrate his skills against to many opponents in that weight class to warrant a high ranking. His overall resume is pretty good and he's definently an all time great in my books, top 40 for sure. If he gets a win over Hatton, Cotto and perhaps Spinks he will jump considerably. Just have to wait and see
Agreed, well 90% anyway.
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Old 11-16-2007, 11:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

In my mind Aaron Pryor poses the worst stylistic matchup for Floyd.

I think Ray Leonard and Hearns would be a nightmare for him at 147lbs.

Arguello I'm not too convinced would cause Floyd that much drama, head to head I'd favour Mayweather over Duran at 135lbs though.
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Old 11-17-2007, 02:54 PM   #9
booradley
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wae Petes
Well, it's clear Boo underrates him and you overrate him. Mayweather is not as good as you say, but he's one of the best ever in head to head terms and pure skills. Pernell Whitaker is one you failed to mention who is better than Mayweather.
With all due respect I don't think I underestimate Mayweather. I willing admit he has already earned his status as an ATG. However, I do have issues with the guy.

1) I think there are guys in every division he has fought in who would beat him at least 3 out of 4 times. Therefore his claim to be the best ever is false.

2) As a world champion he is just not in the same league with the truly great champions of the past. There are guys in boxing history who consistently stepped up and fought the best. Mayweather seems to prefer the path of least resistance. Therefore, once again, his claim to be the best ever is false.

What I'm looking for with this thread is his real place in boxing history. I'm not saying we should take him off the ATG list. I am saying he doesn't belong in the #1 spot, so if not #1, then where?

Boo
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Old 11-17-2007, 03:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

While Mayweathers acomplishments to date are considerable his eventual historical ranking is totaly up in the air.

The Hatton fight for example will be crucial one way or another.
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Old 11-17-2007, 03:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizzle
In my mind Aaron Pryor poses the worst stylistic matchup for Floyd.

I think Ray Leonard and Hearns would be a nightmare for him at 147lbs.

Arguello I'm not too convinced would cause Floyd that much drama, head to head I'd favour Mayweather over Duran at 135lbs though.
You'd favor him over the lightweight Duran?

Last edited by Dr Z; 09-23-2006 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 11-17-2007, 03:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

IF not number 1 than were??

Well behind

Barney Ross
Henry Armstrong,
Jimmy McLarin
Tony Cani
Carlos Ortiz
Benitez
Chavez
Britton
Ted Kid Lewis
Walker
Joe Dundee
Jackie Fields
Corbett III
Zivic
Carmen Basilio
and others of couse.
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Old 11-17-2007, 05:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wae Petes
Well, it's clear Boo underrates him and you overrate him. Mayweather is not as good as you say, but he's one of the best ever in head to head terms and pure skills. Pernell Whitaker is one you failed to mention who is better than Mayweather.
Its all opinion, but tell me, what is his weakness? Pressure fighters is the first thing that comes to mind but when you look at it thats not the case. He had a close fight with Castillo (that you can possibly score for Castillo) but after that he showed whos better in the rematch. Another pressure fighter like Baldomir was shutout, De La Hoya tried to pressure and swarm him and was beaten pretty handily. Mayweathers offence is outstanding on its own, and his defence is even better. He is a complete fighter!
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Old 11-17-2007, 05:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Balsamo
If a past his prime De la Hoya can fight him to a draw (which is my scorecard) then a prime Dela Hoya can beat him.

Can beat him on your scorecard maybe.
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Old 11-18-2007, 01:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mayweather's place in history

Too early to tell where he will rank. The Hatton fight is HUGE for his legacy. Not so much for the positive, but rather for the negative. If he easily handles Hatton, his stock pretty much stays where it is at, where as if he loses it takes a HUGE tumble, and even if he wins but it is a close fight like Castillo 1 his legacy takes a minor hit. Too many good to great fighters that he hasn't faced at this point for him to be a top 50 ATG. IF he gets in a couple of signature wins against a Cotto,etc. then he moves up the board.
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