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Old 04-14-2011, 11:50 AM   #361
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He never wanted to defend his title against Burley though.
I think he deserves a pass since he had just the 233 fights fighting seven hall of famers in the process
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Old 04-14-2011, 11:52 AM   #362
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Just saying .

Buying out Burley's contract is going to extreme measures! Tells you how great Burley. So is anyone going to be doing a Zivic piece?
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:25 PM   #363
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Yep, Zivic was not keen on giving Burley a shot at the 147 title.

Then again, nor was Ray Robinson...in fact, Burley moved up to contest for the Wirld middleweight title and had no luck

It's telling that the only footage we have of him is Vs a genuine Light Heavy.
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Old 04-14-2011, 12:27 PM   #364
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I won't tackle it....I've already done one dirty bastard with hundreds of fights
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:16 PM   #365
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Then again, nor was Ray Robinson...in fact, Burley moved up to contest for the Wirld middleweight title and had no luck .
This is almost on the same lines as the Leonard/Pryor myth. I don't believe Robinson purposely avoided Burley tbh. Robinson did say something to the effect of 'i'm too good looking to fight Burley' but that was just a tongue in cheek, respectful type of comment. I've read and heard Ray Robinson pay many a fighter respect and say how good they were. He did not trash or insult fighters like Floyd does today. Legends/myth if said enough times then people start to believe it, even if it's not true.

Burley retired a full year before Ray fought for the middleweight title. Robinson first turned pro at 135...by this time Burley was already much bigger and fighting at middleweight. I don't believe that fight was really ever that viable and i don't blame Ray Robinson for not fighting a guy who wasn't even in his division before he won the title. I don't see how that could be classed as a duck. It's like saying Marvin Hagler ducked Rodrigo Valdes.
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Old 04-14-2011, 02:28 PM   #366
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Burley was still available for welterweight fights I thought...even against Oakland Bily Smith I think he was only about 154 or summat?

EDIT: I have realised in a stoned haze it was TONY ZALEs team who flat out refused to fight Burley As I've clearly got me dates muddled, was it therefore Armstrog who didn't defend the Welterweight title against Burley?? As you guys know, I'm not infallible I did make a major error there, glad a better poster was there to point it out

I don't think the fight not happening meant a lot in the grand scheme of things and I'm well aware of how respectful of fighters Ray was due to his supposed carrying of his hero, Henry Armstrong.

Here's one for ya' Slip; who had the better resume, Charles or Robinson? It's essentially a toss-up but do you have any strong opinions on it either way? I have Robinson at 3 and Charles at 4 so I clearly rank them very close together. I would assume you, a big Charles admirer, would tend to agree?
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Old 04-14-2011, 04:44 PM   #367
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To be honest I don't think it was that big of greivance Burley never got his shot, sure, in a perfect world he should have. But there werre other great fighters around who got, or never got, shots as well.

If anyone ducked Burley it was Zale and Armstrong.
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:22 PM   #368
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As posted by Gaz late last year. I feel it deserves a mention in this thread.

Name: 'Nipper' Pat Daly
Birth date: 17 - 2 - 1913
Death Date: 25 - 9 - 1988
Division: Flyweight - Featherweight
Country: UK
Record: 99 (26) - 11 (7) - 8

When “Nipper” Pat Daly retired from boxing at the grand old age of 17 he could look back on a professional career that contained 119 fights, victories over some of the top flyweights, bantamweights and featherweights in Europe, a missed world title opportunity and more than a smattering of ‘if only…’.

Born in Wales in 1913 and moving to London as a child, Pat Daly started professional boxing at the age of 10 fighting in the small clubs around his Marylebone home. Over the next five years he had proven himself one of the top flyweights and then bantamweights in Britain and Europe beating many national champions and future champions along the way.


Notable scalps at flyweight such as the champion of Italy Giovanni Silli, German champion Ludwig Minow and future British champion Bert Kirby were all accounted for by the 15-year old Daly who unfortunately outgrew the division before he was able to secure a British title shot.

On moving up to bantamweight his form at the new weight was just as spectacular with the future European champion Nicolas Petit-Biquet, German champion Karl Shulze, ex-British titlist Kid Pattenden and future holder Dick Corbett all falling before “The Wonderkid”. Daly’s attempts to get a title shot at the new weight against current holder and former world champion Teddy Baldock were thwarted by a recently passed BBBofC rule stating that boxers must be 21-years old to fight for a British title.

Daly however may have been looking at other options as, at the tender age of 16, he was ranked by Ring magazine as the number 10 bantamweight in the world. An offer to fight Battling Battalino for the world title was on the table. But, because of his age, Daly could only fight six-round bouts in America but Battalinos management had found a state to sanction a world title fight over that distance. All that was needed was the signature of Daly’s manager “Professor” Newton. Sadly Newton would not agree to the match so the title shot, and with it the chance to be world champion at age 16, went begging.

Daly was continuing to grow and, despite moving up into the featherweight division, was already having serious trouble making the new weight when he got his long-awaited British title shot. A drained Daly was stopped by champion Johnny Cuthbert in the 8th round when ahead on points, the nature of the KO with Dalys head hitting the canvas was thought by ringsiders to have contributed to the stoppage.

A move to lightweight followed and Daly was matched with Seaman Tommy Watson, a fighter who would go on to win the British title and challenge for world honours. Again ahead on points Daly was stopped in the 11th round after being down several times. Five short weeks later, while still suffering from the effects of the Watson defeat, Daly was stopped by Nobby Baker in the 11th.

After these defeats Daly took a long rest before attempting a comeback but, despite putting a run of 7-1-1 together, it was clear that he wasn’t the fighter he once was. He retired from boxing aged 17 with a record of 99 wins, 11 losses and 8 draws.

Looking back today it seems ridiculous for one of British boxing brightest talents to be matched the way Daly was. He was fighting seasoned campaigners when barely a teenager, champions by his 15th birthday. In 1929 he had 33 contests and was burnt out before he turned 18. One can only image what “The Wonderboy” could have accomplished if his career has been managed with a bit more caution…

I'm sure most have already seen this post before, but it deserves to be mentioned in this thread.
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:29 AM   #369
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Greg, I was right...after two attempts
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:15 AM   #370
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Charley White aka Anchowitz

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birth date 1891-03-25
death date 1959-07-24
division lightweight
stance orthodox
height 5′ 6″ / 168cm
reach 68″ / 173cm
country United States
residence Chicago, Illinois, United States
birth place Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom
birth name Charles Anchowitz

Born in Liverpool at the tail end of the 19th century Charley White real name Anchowitz was born to parents who were most likely immigrants from the Ukraine region. White and his family later relocated like many at the time from Liverpool to the states specifically the Chicago where he eventually fought out of as a pro.

He turned pro at the age of 16 and racked up 21 wins (15) before running into ATG featherweight Abe Attell dropping an 8 round decision. White would then rack up a few more wins before facing Attell again this time losing a 10 round decision at a catchweight so the former's feather weight title was not on the line. White then went on an indifferent run of 4-2-1 before fighting Johnny Kilbane future featherweight champ in 1911 losing another 12 round deicsion.

In 1912-13 White then went on a run of 14-0-3 beating future world titlist Johnny Dundee and British title challenger Owen Moran before being stopped in the 18th round of a 20 round fight with Jack Britton the future welterweight champion. White again regrouped beating former lightweight champion Ad Wolgast and current lightweight champion Willie Ritchie in 1914. Though Ritchie's title was on the line White would only take it if he won inside the distance and White failed to do this but was awarded the newspaper decision.

White again challenged for the Lightweight title this time in 1915 against Welsh but lost the 10 round newspaper decision he would avenge this defeat later this year but only in a non title fight despite Welsh still being the champion. He earnt a very respectable 10 round draw with Britains Ted Kid Lewis 3 weeks later and knocked out respected contender Matty Baldwin in a single round to finish the year.

In 1916 White fought for titles twice his first opportunity this year was against Welsh again for the lightweight title but this time lost the 20 round decision. He had Welsh in trouble in round 11,12,13 but was unable to finish the champion off when the decision was announced a riot ensued in which 2 people died and hundreds were injured. Two months later he got another chance this time at welterweight to challenge Jack Britton for his title and again was unsuccessful losing on points over the 12 round distance.

Over the next 4 years White went 22-5-1 including a trilogy with contender Johnny Tillman that he went 1-2 and a loss to Johnny Dundee. He was to get his final opportunity to capture a world title against the Great Benny Leonard. It was in this fight that he came closest to wresting the title that he so desperately wanted. In the 5th round with his famed left hook White knocked Leonard clean through the ropes. With Leonards legs tangled in the ropes and his shoulders hanging over the edge of the ring apron he needed the assistance of his brother to help him back into the ring which was agaisnt the rules. In the 9th round Leonard was able to time White's hook with the right and knocked him down 5 times in the round resulting in White being stopped for the first time in his career.

White would fight on until 1923 and never got another shot at the title he was on the decline but was still able to score some good wins over old foe Johnny Dundee and Rocky Kansas. He came back for one last hurrah in 1930 but was knocked out in the 2nd.

White could easily qualify for one of the best British born fighters never to win a world title and one of the unluckiest. He beat 5 HOF's during a 15 year career and many current or future world champions from featherweight to Welter. Famed for his powerful left hook it was his inability to apply the finish that cost him of a place in history

The old timers call the left hook the unseen punch for it comes out of nowhere and knocks you senseless, and the toughest left hooker of them all is life!!
Followed closely by Charlie White of Chicago.


Ernest Hemingway

Last edited by wrimc; 04-18-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:31 AM   #371
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nice read

ive been pondering who to do next

Also, Mandanda, can u update the front page and add my johnny Tapia and JC Chavez 1's please
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:39 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by wrimc View Post
The old timers call the left hook the unseen punch for it comes out of nowhere and knocks you senseless, and the toughest left hooker of them all is life!!
Followed closely by Charlie White of Chicago.


Ernest Hemingway
Quality.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:41 AM   #373
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Wrimc, that is a quality contribution mucker, knew of but didn't know enough about White
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:41 AM   #374
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Quality fighter that i dont think much is known about really and I have a bit of a soft spot for those so close but yet so far fighters

I love the fact that he fought Freddie Welsh 3rd of July 1915 in New York winning a 10 round decision, then went to Boston and fought a 12 round draw on the 13th of July and finally on the 21st of July fought another 10 round draw with Ted Kid Lewis back in New York.

THAT is old school

To think we can barely get fighters out 3 times a year these days
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:35 PM   #375
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Front Page Updated.

Once again massive thanks to all contributions so far it's much appreciated and makes for a fantastic read.
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