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Old 02-28-2011, 04:59 AM   #31
teeto
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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the Klits aren't considered ATG greats yet they fight the best available which can't be said about JJ
The Klits will definitely be considered atg's as soon as they retire, tbh i thought they were already. But i have to say, yes they do fight the best available but you can't inflate their greatness because of that, it goes by who is available. For all we know Wlad might be good enough to dominate a great era, but we don't know that, if he is that good then it's not his fault he came along in a shit era, he's unlucky, but the fact is his resume shows dominance of a shit heavyweight era. We can't rate someone on speculation.

Ricardo Lopez is seen on here as overrated, because his opposition which he totally took the piss out of was not great. It's pretty clear how good a fighter Lopez was, and much better than Wlad too, so if people are going to be consistent then the same logic should be applied to Wlad.

For me Wlad is great, but it's to an extent, i can't help but look into his losses, i always have, for me someone like Sonny Liston would blitz him. Forgive me for keeping reservations about a man who i think would get totally blitzed by a fellow great.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:06 AM   #32
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Originally Posted by teeto View Post
The Klits will definitely be considered atg's as soon as they retire, tbh i thought they were already. But i have to say, yes they do fight the best available but you can't inflate their greatness because of that, it goes by who is available. For all we know Wlad might be good enough to dominate a great era, but we don't know that, if he is that good then it's not his fault he came along in a shit era, he's unlucky, but the fact is his resume shows dominance of a shit heavyweight era. We can't rate someone on speculation.

Ricardo Lopez is seen on here as overrated, because his opposition which he totally took the piss out of was not great. It's pretty clear how good a fighter Lopez was, and much better than Wlad too, so if people are going to be consistent then the same logic should be applied to Wlad.

For me Wlad is great, but it's to an extent, i can't help but look into his losses, i always have, for me someone like Sonny Liston would blitz him. Forgive me for keeping reservations about a man who i think would get totally blitzed by a fellow great.

good post although i think you overate the klits a bit . another fighter you could throw into the pot about lack of great competition is khaosai galaxy he is a fighter a like to watch and was again dominate but on here he is always jumped on over the lack of quality opposition he faced
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:10 AM   #33
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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good post although i think you overate the klits a bit . another fighter you could throw into the pot about lack of great competition is khaosai galaxy he is a fighter a like to watch and was again dominate but on here he is always jumped on over the lack of quality opposition he faced
Sorry if it came across that way, i meant the opposite, i don't rate them that highly at all as fighters really, i was just saying 'for all we know they could be good enough to dominate a great era' to be objective. My thoughts on Wlad really lie with my comments about him vs Sonny Liston.

Yeah i agree on Galaxy, i always bring that up in discussions on here.
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Old 02-28-2011, 07:54 AM   #34
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time? I have not seen this thread discussed.

I believe Johnson appears to have been born at the right time. He defeated not read for prime time greats in Langford, Jeanette, and McVey. Johnson did not have to face prime versions of Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, or Corbett either.

When Johnson was champion, there was no such thing as a mandatory. The color line ( although Johnson had big money offers to fight near prime and prime versions of Langford, Jeanette, and McVey ), was still in play, so he cruised though the least distinguished title reign of any great champion.

Is there some truth to this question, or not?

As far as I can tell the best live bodies that Johnson fought in their near prime or prime were Willard, Burns, Choynski, and Hart. Can we all agree here?
I he'd come along later,he'd have got a title shot at an earlier age. I'm talking the 1940's onwards.
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:00 AM   #35
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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good post although i think you overate the klits a bit . another fighter you could throw into the pot about lack of great competition is khaosai galaxy he is a fighter a like to watch and was again dominate but on here he is always jumped on over the lack of quality opposition he faced
Dominant. Sorry, brother, but this is the classic forum.
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Old 02-28-2011, 08:42 AM   #36
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Dominant. Sorry, brother, but this is the classic forum.
thats ok
i am not educated so don't care about the classic forum wanting correct grammar
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:04 AM   #37
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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What the hell? That was the most substantial post you've ever made that I've seen. Mendoza drug it out of you.
eslubin is fast becoming the no.1 P4P poster
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Old 02-28-2011, 10:36 AM   #38
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Originally Posted by eslubin View Post
You can say that about any champion. Jeffries came on right at the time Fitz and Corbett were on the slide. Dempsey came around when he could get away with avoiding names lik Langford and McVey. Even Joe Louis came around as Schmeling, Sharkey and even Braddock and Lewis had their best days behind them. That means its too uninteresting and generic.

Maybe the question you should really be asking is why you are so emotionally devoted to to try to tear down Jack Johnson's name irrationally. What has happened in your own experience to make that of such a paramount importance? Probably much more interesting and meaningful a question if you dare lol


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

youtube.com/eslubin
My new sig! This applies to not only Johnson but any boxer. Why do haters feel it's important to degrade a fighter's rep if they truly "despise" them? Dragging a fighter's name in the mud doesn't hurt them, it PROMOTES them.

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I'll take them over tubby cry and eat himself to sleep Aureola any day.
Me too. It's sickening to look at these so called "athletes" in the current hvy divison.
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:44 AM   #39
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

Well, all things considered, I wouldn't agree with this threads thesis ....

In a purely boxing sense, Jack was either helped or hurt by the interest in having a white contender take his title. If Jack would have fought and beaten Joe and the Sam's, that really would have put some luster on his legacy; but if the fights would have turned out otherwise ....

I do think Jack vs Jeanette, McVey or Langford would have made money for all involved; I do think people who didn't fancy Johnson would mostly have gotten behind those guys.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:13 PM   #40
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time? I have not seen this thread discussed.
Put it this way.

If he was born at the right time, then I would hate to see the backlash against his title reign if he had been born at the wrong time!
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Old 02-28-2011, 03:03 PM   #41
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Unknown. The K-bros are very dominant, hardly ever losing a round. They bring a new blend of size, skills, power, and intelligence to the division, and in my opnion would simply be too much for many past all time greats. The K-bros will fight any age group out there, do not hide behind any color line for the most part do not pick on cruiser weights, or novices The Klitschko's never made their mark smashing washed up x champs such as Holyfield, Tyson, Moorer, Bowe, ect... Its an entirely different thread. Now, do you agree with me that Johnson benefited from being born at the right time or not?
Mercer? Briggs?

Jack Johnson didn't lose too many rounds either.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:30 PM   #42
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

Who is eslubin? I mean, really?
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
So whats the thread title, did Jack Johnson benefit from Jim Cowardly Jeffries running from him like a little girl? Well he probably made more money waiting for Jeffries to grow a pair, so yes
The guy was fighting the best heavyweights in the world after his first few profesional fights and you get to call him a coward?

Get a reality check mate.
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Who is eslubin? I mean, really?
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Old 02-28-2011, 05:40 PM   #45
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Who is eslubin? I mean, really?
I know, i ask myself this question. He's not your average joe. The prescence of his posts come across with authority and seem to carry an official trademark. All i know is that ESB is a better place with him in it.
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