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Old 03-01-2011, 10:50 AM   #61
Pachilles
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Only the Classic's resident memember of the Aryan Brotherhood would ask this. Lets see:

1. Forced to make his way because of his race in fighting the degrading battle royals - yes what a great time to be born in

2. Frozen out against the top white fighters because of his race for several years - yes born at the right time

3. The World Champion is allowed to duck him because of his race

4. In his biggest fight he is racially abused by the crowd

5. Chased out of the country and made a criminal because of his race, yep clearly born in the ideal historical time
I agree that Mendoza has a pale, pasty, skinny penis and that its made him bitter.

But maybe you could argue that his situation is what drove him to accomplish what he did. He certainly seems like the type of character that hardships would make him stronger, rather than fold and defeat him. Not what Mendoza was suggesting mind
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:36 PM   #62
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Why he never fought Gunboat Smith?
Smith was for 2 years the top white HW and nr 1 contender with wins over the likes of langford Willard Morris and Moran; he also kayoed JJ in sparring.
If the public was so eager to see Johnson losing the title to a white man, why didn't the promoters make this fight happen?...after all Ed Gunboat was considered the white HW champion and made JJ look very bad in sparring
Smith's form only held for a year.
Moran had beaten no one of note when he fought Smith he improved markedly later.
Langford ? Many thought Langford won their fight and there is also some speculation Sam had the hand cuffs on.
Morris was being beat by just about every one at the time.
Willard was a near novice when Smith beat him.
Smith, according to a taped interview he gave in 1972,did NOT ko Johnson he put him halfway through the ropes of the Seal Rock House's ring whilst Johnson was sparring to fight Ketchel.
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Old 03-01-2011, 02:26 PM   #63
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Only the Classic's resident memember of the Aryan Brotherhood would ask this. Lets see:
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Old 03-01-2011, 03:58 PM   #64
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Cowardice - lack of courage in facing danger, pain, or difficulty. By definition he can be called a coward
So a man who fights his profesional dubut in a 15 round fight, against the eras equivalent of Ray Austin, then goes on to take on the best contenders of the era after only a few profesional fights, is lacking in courage in facing danger, pain, or difficulty?

I don't think so.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:01 PM   #65
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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So a man who fights his profesional dubut in a 15 round fight, against the eras equivalent of Ray Austin, then goes on to take on the best contenders of the era after only a few profesional fights, is lacking in courage in facing danger, pain, or difficulty?

I don't think so.
That is physical courage.
How about the courage to do what is right,to swim against the tide, simply because you know in your heart it is the right thing to do?
By the way Jim Corbett ,and John L Sullivan both thought Jeffries courage failed him immediately prior to the Johnson fight.
Corbett said he went into a shell and was unnerved.
Sullivan said he gave him a pep talk the day before the fight saying ,"everyone hates a quitter."
Brady, Jeffries former manager said he allways lacked confidence, even betting against himself in the first Fitzsimmons fight.
Brady cooked up the well known ruse of Jeffries manhandling the unprepared Fitz in a dispute about a clean break ,he did it to boost Jeffries, flagging confidence.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:17 PM   #66
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Why he never fought Gunboat Smith?
Smith was for 2 years the top white HW and nr 1 contender with wins over the likes of langford Willard Morris and Moran; he also kayoed JJ in sparring.
If the public was so eager to see Johnson losing the title to a white man, why didn't the promoters make this fight happen?...after all Ed Gunboat was considered the white HW champion and made JJ look very bad in sparring
Johnson did in fact fight Smith in 1909 when he was in his prime. It was a 4 round exhibition match that ended when Johnson was floored and dazed to the point where his manger had to halt the action. Essentially a TKO of a champion. Smith was not a hope at all. He beat guys who Johnson gave title shots to. All of the above is fact.

As for power puncher's comment, ironic a guy who posts Nazi symbols in this forum has the nerve to call someone else racists.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:19 PM   #67
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

Vitali Klitschko is a drugs cheat.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:31 PM   #68
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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I thinks Chris Arreola would be beat several of Johnson's "best" defenses in one night.
No way...

I'm thankful that Tomasz Adamek has moved up in weight and shown that despite coming up from LHW he can still be effective because of his skills.


Spinks, Jones Jr, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Langford, Conn, McVea, Fitzsimmons would have beaten Arreola.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:37 PM   #69
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Vitali Klitschko is a drugs cheat.
Then Johnson would have loved him...
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:00 PM   #70
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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No way...

I'm thankful that Tomasz Adamek has moved up in weight and shown that despite coming up from LHW he can still be effective because of his skills.


Spinks, Jones Jr, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Langford, Conn, McVea, Fitzsimmons would have beaten Arreola.
I agree.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:37 PM   #71
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
So a man who fights his profesional dubut in a 15 round fight, against the eras equivalent of Ray Austin, then goes on to take on the best contenders of the era after only a few profesional fights, is lacking in courage in facing danger, pain, or difficulty?

I don't think so.
Agreed.

Johnson was, if nothing else, a bad ass with more sack than almost any sporting hero I can think of. My arguments regarding his status have zero to do with this attribute.

I don't get the cowardice angle.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:58 AM   #72
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Originally Posted by ironchamp View Post
No way...

I'm thankful that Tomasz Adamek has moved up in weight and shown that despite coming up from LHW he can still be effective because of his skills.


Spinks, Jones Jr, Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Langford, Conn, McVea, Fitzsimmons would have beaten Arreola.
Prime maybe yes.....but not the green 150lbs Langford that fought Johnson.

I'll comfortably take Arreola over the guys whor fought Johnson for his title.
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:38 AM   #73
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Prime maybe yes.....but not the green 150lbs Langford that fought Johnson.

I'll comfortably take Arreola over the guys whor fought Johnson for his title.
Langford was not green he had over 50 fights under his belt when he fought Johnson, he was the more experienced of the two.
Langford weighed 156lbs for their fight Johnson 185lbs, So both were under their optimum weights Langford by about 20 -25 lbs Johnson by 20lbs. But you keep repeating the same old crap
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:40 AM   #74
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Johnson did in fact fight Smith in 1909 when he was in his prime. It was a 4 round exhibition match that ended when Johnson was floored and dazed to the point where his manger had to halt the action. Essentially a TKO of a champion. Smith was not a hope at all. He beat guys who Johnson gave title shots to. All of the above is fact.

As for power puncher's comment, ironic a guy who posts Nazi symbols in this forum has the nerve to call someone else racists.
You forgot to add ,Johnson was on the floor screaming for mercy and his "MANGER" had to drag him to his feet , and rescue him.
But that's what good MANGERS are for.
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:08 AM   #75
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Default Re: Did Jack Johnson benefit from being born at the right time?

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Langford was not green he had over 50 fights under his belt when he fought Johnson, he was the more experienced of the two.
Langford weighed 156lbs for their fight Johnson 185lbs, So both were under their optimum weights Langford by about 20 -25 lbs Johnson by 20lbs. But you keep repeating the same old crap
I said Mcvey was a teenager, and he was! Only 19 when he lost to Johnson twice, and 20 in the final match. Essentially Johnson beat a very young kid. not too impressive.

I said Jeanette was green with limited experience and he was. In fact Jeanette had a losing record when he first meet Johnson, and was never much better than 500 by the time they had their last match. Not very impressive either.

We agree Langford was but 156 pounds. That is a start. Now open your eyes and ears, because back in 1905 and 1906, Langford experience at heavyweight was very limited. In fact he was still fight other fighters welters and middle just before and after that fight.

Those are the facts you should accept, Mcvey.
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