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Old 11-17-2007, 08:05 PM   #61
zippy
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
I agree with brownpimp88, Camacho had a great chin, no doubt about that. But to be fair, you have also to say, that Marciano´s KD´s were flush and he wasn´t hurt, every KD doesn´t automatically mean that you´re hurt or so...

I agree; I think Camacho had a good chin, but it goes back to what Manassa said earlier about survival instincts. That and chin are a different thing. Camacho had both I think. I was just arguing about weight gain.
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Old 11-17-2007, 09:21 PM   #62
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by zippy
I agree; I think Camacho had a good chin, but it goes back to what Manassa said earlier about survival instincts. That and chin are a different thing. Camacho had both I think. I was just arguing about weight gain.

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Old 11-17-2007, 09:33 PM   #63
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by I Am Legend
Monzon had zero power, therefore his fight with napoles should have no bearing on napoles chin.


Oliver McCall has the greatest chin of all time, he sparred hundreds of rounds against the greatest puncher in history without even getting rocked.
Anywhere possible with a connection to Tyson.
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:19 PM   #64
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Marvin Hagler.
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:30 AM   #65
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Maxie Rosenbloom
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Old 11-18-2007, 05:31 AM   #66
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by I Am Legend
Monzon had zero power, therefore his fight with napoles should have no bearing on napoles chin.


Oliver McCall has the greatest chin of all time, he sparred hundreds of rounds against the greatest puncher in history without even getting rocked.
Maxie Rosenbloom.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:08 AM   #67
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by I Am Legend
Monzon had zero power, therefore his fight with napoles should have no bearing on napoles chin.


Oliver McCall has the greatest chin of all time, he sparred hundreds of rounds against the greatest puncher in history without even getting rocked.
McCall is definately my pick.

Seriously, people need to WATCH Lewis-McCall II. McCall wasn't even holding his hands up during the "quit round", he took a RIDICULOUS number of right crosses from Lewis (who was throwing everything he had towards taking McCall out), a very hard puncher himself.

McCall was just walking around the ring taking clean shots to the head, and he wasn't even fazed.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:31 AM   #68
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

We should get Zakman in here
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:41 PM   #69
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by Manassa
In Napoles' defence...

... Dundee pulled him out because of the punishment he was taking (it was round seven he didn't see though, although technically he didn't see round eight either).

And you know 'the' hook Barkley landed on Duran? Napoles took several punches like that in the sixth round alone by Monzon. Without looking at the tape I can distinctly remember three one-two-threes to the head that started off the whole assault, and a massive right hand shortly after that landed flush as Napoles was backed to the ropes. And that was only a third of it, he took another load like that as well yet was still standing at the bell. I should imagine a more youthful Napoles would have handled it even better.

Also, McLarnin was a featherfist in comparison to Carlos Hernandez, who had a right hand like Tony DeMarco.
I had forgotten that Ross went down a few times against Garcia in '35... that demotes him. As for Napoles's chin -strictly speaking it was great, of that I have no doubt. My definition of a elite/great chin factors in more than yours however... Ross was never stopped but he went down -he's no Hagler. Napoles was stopped, and I detract points based on that -whether it was for cuts (damn near always the case with him) or his corner really doesn't rehabilitate the fact that he was stopped. I factor it against him in terms of chin.

In the last minute of the fifth, Napoles was stunned by a series of hard shots. He went backwards and stopped punching to regain composure. He took the shots, but he was stunned, if not hurt... in the sixth, yes, he was standing at the end, but he was hurt. I wouldn't put him at the top based on this fight.

...I do agree that the more youthful Napoles would have handled the Monzon onslaughts better but we would not have such a clear measure of his chin -you take more shots as you age because that mind's eye that prepares you for shots is based on reflexes and those diminish markedly in your 30s. All you have left eventually is chin and will.
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:47 PM   #70
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
But Barkley didn't hit Duran as many times on the button in such a short period of time as Monzon did with Napoles. He tatooed his face non-stop for two consecutive rounds. Ange Dundee pulled him out because he couldn't see out of one eye.
Round 7, Duran-Barkley. Barkley, facing the camera, wound up and nailed Duran flush with a left hook... then he winds up again and doubles it. Duran took these flush. Duran was taking monster shots in that bout that he shouldn't have. And don't forget he was a bit smaller than Napoles and Barkley was a bigger mann than Monzon.

I'd argue that Duran's chin was slightly better than Napoles... but neither are in Hagler's league.
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:58 PM   #71
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Lamotta,Hagler,Greb,Marciano,Maxim,Chuvalo,McCall
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:06 PM   #72
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
I had forgotten that Ross went down a few times against Garcia in '35... that demotes him. As for Napoles's chin -strictly speaking it was great, of that I have no doubt. My definition of a elite/great chin factors in more than yours however... Ross was never stopped but he went down -he's no Hagler. Napoles was stopped, and I detract points based on that -whether it was for cuts (damn near always the case with him) or his corner really doesn't rehabilitate the fact that he was stopped. I factor it against him in terms of chin.
Why? I thought you read the same lines as me when it comes to separating raw durability from the ability to survive; there are many factors; defence, reflexes, cut resistance, counter punching (discourages attackers), stamina etc... If I'm not mistaken, we are talking about pure 'chin.'

I don't think criticizing Napoles for being stunned against a heavy handed, larger fighter is fair. We never saw Hagler take light heavyweight punches.
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:43 PM   #73
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
Why? I thought you read the same lines as me when it comes to separating raw durability from the ability to survive; there are many factors; defence, reflexes, cut resistance, counter punching (discourages attackers), stamina etc... If I'm not mistaken, we are talking about pure 'chin.'

I don't think criticizing Napoles for being stunned against a heavy handed, larger fighter is fair. We never saw Hagler take light heavyweight punches.
Napoles was stopped 4 times in his career. Three because of cuts, one because Monzon landed too many concussive blows to his head. Napoles's inability to continue means to me that his chin was about to fail him, or that he was going to be hurt. Don't mistake me, he had a top chin, I just wouldn't put it up there with Haglers'.

"Chin" is the ability to take a punch to the face. It isn't literally the chin area -it includes the temple and cheekbones and the end of the jawbone under the ear -all the nerve centers. Cuts probably shouldn't count, but I can't help it. If you get stopped, you get stopped. Perhaps I am confusing the argument; I just can't say that I'd place Hagler at the top if he was stopped 3 times on cuts.

Great chins take monster shots. But the "best chins" don't acknowledge monster shots, the fighter doesn't skip a beat and the fighter isn't stopped -ever.
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:49 PM   #74
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Napoles was stopped 4 times in his career. Three because of cuts, one because Monzon landed too many concussive blows to his head. Napoles's inability to continue means to me that his chin was about to fail him, or that he was going to be hurt. Don't mistake me, he had a top chin, I just wouldn't put it up there with Haglers'.

"Chin" is the ability to take a punch to the face. It isn't literally the chin area -it includes the temple and cheekbones and the end of the jawbone under the ear -all the nerve centers. Cuts probably shouldn't count, but I can't help it. If you get stopped, you get stopped. Perhaps I am confusing the argument; I just can't say that I'd place Hagler at the top if he was stopped 3 times on cuts.

Great chins take monster shots. But the "best chins" don't acknowledge monster shots, the fighter doesn't skip a beat and the fighter isn't stopped -ever.
Quote:
Perhaps I am confusing the argument
I think so.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:44 PM   #75
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Default Re: Best chins ever, p4p

We'd have a better understanding of who had a better chin between Napoles and Hagler if a past prime Hagler took some flush shots from cruiserweights, which is about equivalent to the natural 135-140 pound Napoles taking flush shots from the 160 pound Monzon.
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