Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-01-2011, 06:39 PM   #16
thegoldenera
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by john garfield View Post
Admire your passion for the sport, t. Wished you'd had a chance ta see Rocky fight live. Think it would've left an indelible impression...'n possibly changed your mind.
maybe... but still... cus damato saw marciano and he said that he would have no chance against foreman or liston... and lamotta saw marciano and he said that tyson was bigger ,better and stronger...
 Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-01-2011, 06:39 PM   #17
johnmaff36
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ireland
Posts: 2,628
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

His resume aint as deep as a lot of others, hence peoples reluctance to rank him no1. Having an 'O' doesnt necessarily equate to being the best ever i.e. Ottke, Terry Marsh. Dont get me wrong, i rate Marciano a lot higher than some in this forum and im not being disrespectful towards his 49-0. Marciano gives ANYONE a hard nights work, make no mistake about it.
johnmaff36 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 07:17 PM   #18
RockysSplitNose
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Midlands in England
Posts: 3,940
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegoldenera View Post
.ARE YOU SERIOUS? i can beat your grandmother and 4 kids and yes... i will be undefeated too.... sorry but your question is stupid.... the quality of the rivals is very important. and marciano was retired when he was 32. tons of hws would have been undefeated in the era of marciano.
marciano would have been detroyed by foreman and liston. he would be owned by joe frazier,ali and vitali klitschko . probably jack jonhson would play with him. prime louis might well beat him. and probably a peak tyson would have been too strong and explosive for him. larry holmes,lewis and holyfield would give him the hell. guys like ron lyle, spoon, james smith, chuvalo,quarry, jimmy young,david tua.... would give him the hell as well.
AAaaarrreee you Combateoboxeo in disguise!!?????? Are you Cooombateeooooo iiiinnn disguise!!!?
RockysSplitNose is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 07:20 PM   #19
he grant
Historian/Film Maker
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,668
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Marciano was a great pound for pound fighter. Pound for pound he was an all time top heavyweight .. I personally don't believe he'd do too well against the best of the much bigger men based on his size and style ... thats about that ..
he grant is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:32 PM   #20
DKD
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,279
vCash: 645
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

I think being undefeated is over rated. The very best have all lost at some point.
DKD is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 09:40 PM   #21
PH|LLA
ESB Junkie
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: YUL
Posts: 38,158
vCash: 5685
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

one of the most underrated fighters of all time (here on esb at least) but that doesn't mean that he's #1. Undefeated isn't that big a deal.
PH|LLA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 10:06 PM   #22
Bill1234
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,005
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegoldenera View Post
maybe... but still... cus damato saw marciano and he said that he would have no chance against foreman or liston... and lamotta saw marciano and he said that tyson was bigger ,better and stronger...
And Ali sparred with an old Marciano and from that brief sparring session, Rocky made a huge impression on him. Marciano is the only person Ali never bad mouthed and never 100% picked himself to beat Marciano.
Bill1234 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 12:04 AM   #23
Hank
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,232
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Marciano was rated number one by some, he dropped as years went by. Walcott fight--he is only guy who wins that bout, maybe a Joe Louis or Tyson does too. Blinded during middle rounds, hung in, fast pace, one punch ko over great fighter. Ezzard Charles, latley is being called 'Old" in Marciano fights was not old, and still great. That second bout--freak nose cut, nose split, he comes out and ko's Charles.

Marciano ruinded carreers, Rex Layne and La starza, along with Charles, were never same. If they were, and continued as they had been doing before Marcian bouts, they would be ranked higher, and Marciano would have had a grea trematch with Layne if he had recoveered %100 from pounding Rocky gave him.

People criticsize his reach. He reached opponents chins, that's only reach that counts. Before title he had people saying he was not built right, or not talented enough. He proved that to be untrue. Some people, for whatever reasons, won't accept him.
Hank is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 12:39 AM   #24
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,989
vCash: 685
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKD View Post
I think being undefeated is over rated. The very best have all lost at some point.
I dont think this is true at all. In fact, the very best very rarely if ever lose, until they get old or slacken off. Certainly, once they hit prime they never do.

Sullivan never lost until old. Corbett never lost until old and retired. fitz never lost until old. Jeffries never lost until old. Johnson is an exception to the rule. Dempsey never lost, once he hit prime, until old. Tunney lost once only and avenged it. Louis lost once only. Marciano never lost. Liston lost once only until old. Ali never lost until he went inactive. Holmes never lost until he got old. Tyson never lost until he got old.

The best fighters who have lost and still been considered great are Lewis, Klitchsko, Holyfield, Foreman and Frazier. but there arent as many of these. I think that it is ridiculous to suggest that having no losses isnt important. Admittedly there is the occassional Ottke factor, but Rocky is different because he fought the best available.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 03:09 AM   #25
Cael
Claudia Cardinale
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballz Deep
Posts: 1,694
vCash: 811
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Rocky could probably have beaten any heavyweight champion before a prime Joe Louis came along, with the exception of Jack Johnson.
Good one...
Jack Johnson wouldn't survive 10 rounds against Rocky.

Jack Dempsey would probably have the best chance to KO Rocky from all of the HW champions before him.
Joe Louis probably too, but i don't like his static style and beard against Rock.
Cael is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 03:20 AM   #26
Cael
Claudia Cardinale
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballz Deep
Posts: 1,694
vCash: 811
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by chatty View Post
Basically he hasnt got as good a resume as other heavyweight boxers. He had tremendous heart and was in great shape but many feel he would have been beaten head to head by a lot of other heavies and that there are boxers whos resume are a lot better.
He definitely has a better resume then say Jack Johnson,Floyd Patterson or as much as it hurts me to say Jack Dempsey.
Cael is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 04:27 AM   #27
bodhi
So I can die easy ...
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,491
vCash: 1337
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Ah, well, I think Marciano is a hard one to put into perspective. People look at his record, at his size and at his resume and critizise it. Saying he would have never wnt 49-0 in another era, he would be too small and that his best opponents were all past it old men. While there is some truth in all of it, itīs also all wrong. At the same time.

Marciano would never have went 49-0 in another era. Yes, very likely - although I think swap him with Dempsey or Tyson in the 80s or Wlad now and it is possible. But does it matter? Can you rank a fighter on what he perhaps would have done in another era? Really? Doesnīt make it more sense to look at what a fighter did in his era and compare it to what other fighterd did in their eras? Marciano went 49-0, every one of his defences during his reign was against the number one contender bar one which was against the number two. Which other champion can say this of himself? I canīt think of one. This alone makes his resume very good. Well, if his record of 49-0 wasnīt that special why wasnīt it equalized by anyone? Holmes nearly got it but got beaten by a blown up lhw. Well, Marciano beat his "blown up lhws" up and both were much, much better hws than Spinks. Alone the fact that no other hw in any other era was able to repeat his feat of going 49-0 makes it big.

Marciano was a small hw, he could never have competed with the big hws from the 60s/70s on. Yes, very likely that he would have lost to someone like Liston, Ali, Foreman, Holmes or Lewis. But again, does it matter? Do you people rank fighters on some fantasy matches? Or do you rank them on what they actually did? Well, Marciano was small. Most of the fighters he beat were bigger than him. Marciano made an advantage out of his size. He was the hw that mastered fighting small to perfection. He made himself even smaller than he was to avoid the punches of his opponents, to make them punch down and thus taking away some of their snap and precision, making their punches longer and easier to see. I donīt see how this could lower his standing amongst the atgs. It should enhance it. When people talk about Fitz, Greb, Armstrong and so on they are astonished about their feat of beating bigger guys. When they talk about Rocky, they say he was too small to compete against bigger guys. Compare that to Lewis who was bigger than nearly all of his opponents. This is used to enhance his standing amongst the great hws. But beating up smaller fighters should actually lower it. When people talk about Monzon and Hopkins they critizise them for fighting smaller fighters. But with Lewis it enhances his status. Double standards.

Marcianoīs best opponents were all past their best and old. Thatīs although true to an extent. It was discussed over and over alrady on here. Aside of Louis all of them put on a superb performance against Marciano the first time they fought. Walcott and Charles were as good as they ever were at hw despite age. And Moore put on a great effort, knocking the champ down before getting grinded down and came of the best streak of his career. Remember Louis was ranked above Marciano when they fought and came of a serious winning streak, including a KO over Walcott. So, why is Marciano getting sh*t for taking care of business? Why do people look at the age of his opponents instead of looking at the actual fights and circumstances of those fights? Not even talking that Marciano wasnīt really a young champ himself. Compare that to Holmes who only rarely (less than Marciano at least) getīs sh*t for struggling more with older (and worse) fighters like Norton or Shavers or young, inexperienced ones like Witherspoon. Why is that? Or what about Lewis? His best wins are over older, past their prime opponents like Holyfield or Tyson. I donīt see people critizising this very often - apart from some Tyson fans. Why is that?

I think when it comes to Marciano people just tend to see only negatives everywhere. Why is that? Iīm not a fan of Rocky. But you got to recognize that what he did was special, that he is amongst the greatest hws ever. Personally, I only rate Ali, Louis and Jack Johnson above him. And I think he deserves very much to rank there.
bodhi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 06:14 AM   #28
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,317
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxingmemories View Post
Marciano is the only undefeated heavyweight champion but he is not considered the no 1 champion of all time. Can anybody tell me why?
Watch the flims, and he has his hands full with slightly past their prime fighters, and sometimes fails to finish weak opposition early. Marciano may have got a favorable decision vs LaStarza and Lowry. In a head to head sense, he is very small with a t-rex like reach. Top ten is fine. #1? no way.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 06:30 AM   #29
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

When I first joined ESB in 2003 more people had him as a no1 and more people had him beating Ali.

The reasons he doesn't rate that highly on my list:

1. He was only champion for 3years
2. His comp isn't the highest quality and the best are all past prime
3. His 49-0 is quite deceptive, he didn't step up to world level until he was 25-0 when he won a controversal SD over LaStarza, then he didn't step up to world class again until his 36th fight. Effectively out of the 49 opponents most are fluff
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2011, 07:10 AM   #30
thegoldenera
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1234 View Post
And Ali sparred with an old Marciano and from that brief sparring session, Rocky made a huge impression on him. Marciano is the only person Ali never bad mouthed and never 100% picked himself to beat Marciano.
ali was being humble... please... if ali ali had wanted to fight seriously he would hurt badly old marciano... please... marciano had the pressure style to give ali problems but it was because his style, not because he was marciano...
 Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013