Angott UD10 Pep: Rate this victory, 1-10, please.

[lufcrazy]

Being on a comeback and defeating a top ten (fifteen at worst) prime atg like pep is pretty much as good as it gets.

[Saintpat]

It's a big win, for sure, probably an 8 in my book.

Why not higher? Pep didn't accomplish anything of note as a lightweight, so it's not like beating a guy who had credentials above his natural and dominant weight class -- i.e. beating Hearns at junior middle has more merit because he was accomplished above 147, while beating a Monzon or a Hagler had they stepped up to 175 wouldn't mean as much presuming they didn't go on to accomplish more above middle.

If Little Red Lopez (yes, I know he's no Pep) had stepped up to 135 and lost to Duran, I doubt people would have considered it a major win on Duran's record -- alter the timeline a bit and I feel it would be the same if Duran had beaten a Eusebio Pedroza or Sal Sanchez at lightweight.

[timmers612]

Originally Posted by burt bienstock

RC, a few points to make-
1-Willie Pep seemed unbeatable before he fought Angott in 1943.For the featherweight division, I mean. The reason Willie tackled Angott and Willie Joyce ,both lightweights, were for this reason. They both couldn't punch
much harder than some featherweights. I recall those days the great Pep
wisely avoiding the likes of Ike Williams, Beau Jack,Bob Montgomery,all
vicious punching lightweights, who might have stopped Pep. Willie knew his limitations.Willie also took on lightweight Paddy DeMarco,who was a light
punching Sammy Angott type, punch, maul and hold.
Ray Robinson,like Willie tackled a light punching lightheavyweight Joey Maxim,rather taking on an Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall,all
who could possibly stop Robbie. So yes Pep and Robinson knew their
limitation. Wise choices on their parts...

I always look forward to your posts Burt. Reading them reminds me of the great past Ring scribes Dan Daniels, Sam Taub, and Nat Loubet. I get the Ring still and wish you had a column in it sir.

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Being on a comeback and defeating a top ten (fifteen at worst) prime atg like pep is pretty much as good as it gets.

Damned right it was.

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by orriray59

I voted 9. A victory over an almost-consensus top 10 all-time kinda guy, and the first loss of his career, ever.

The reason it isn't a 10 is because it was only fought over the 10-round distance. If Angott had handed Pep his first L over 12 or 15 rounds, I'd be more impressed. Willie was great.

Well, I see your point, but it was what it was...a ten rounder..and the result was a massive accomplishment for Angott. He snapped one of the most formidable winning streaks in history and I give him massive props for that.

[Drew101]

For the most part, Pep seemed married to the featherweight division (most of his fights during his reign guy were fought against guys who were at or around his weight). But he did score some nice victories over guys who made noise at 135, like DeMarco, Joyce and the aforementioned Stolz. Savoie later on in his career as well.

So I don't thnk it was just a matter of Pep running into a bigger, stronger guy...It was also the fact that he was facing someone with a skill-set and style to give him tons of trouble.

Because of that, I rate the victory pretty high...9/10.

[Boxed Ears]

delete

[red cobra]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

I'm a little surprised by the five and six votes. I'm probably going to vote eight, myself. I haven't quite settled that it isn't a nine even, by my estimation. What surprises me more so is that on my rate-the-victory thread for Dempsey over Sharkey there are eight votes placed in the 8-10 spots for that victory so far and for Angott taking Pep's 0 we've got six in the 8-10 spots, altogether. I find this somewhat unsettling. Like watching an elephant **** a mouse. Unsettling like that. You just know it shouldn't be happening.

Did you know that if you read that post of yours backwards, it says "Paul is the Walrus"?

[turbotime]

Angott rocks. I love looking at the secondary 'tier' of HOF'ers around that time besides Armstrong, Williams, Robinson, etc. It always turns out the guys they beat like Angott, Joyce, or Zivic had damned great resumes as well.

Not many fighters had Bobcat Montgomery's number like Angott. Stopped Williams, beat Pep. Beast.