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Old 03-06-2011, 07:09 PM   #1
zacbox
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Default With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter...

At what stage of their career would you advise them to finish, to improve their legacy?

Ali. After Foreman? But then misses the Thrilla victory? After that but then doesn't win the crown for a 3rd time.

Or how about Louis. Should he have stayed retired the first time even with the money issues

Sugar Ray Leonard. After Hagler?

Lewis - would you advise him to fight Vitali again?

Be interested to hear some thoughts on some of the fighters from further back.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

roy jones....

i start managing him in 1995 and guide him to announce a tour of englad after his win over vinny paz

he travels to england and defeats eubank to set up a stage for a huge benn fight, taking mcclellan's place.

after he knocks out benn late, he comes back and (due to ENORMOUS pressure) fights g-man. after a fight of the year battle, jones a well earned decision and gains respect for battling through adversity and fighting showing massive heart

he moves up to light heavy and his career goes much the same way except takes a 60/40 to fight DM in the states. a surprisingly easy and dominant win sets the tone for a slightly earlier move up to heavyweight

he takes on ruiz (again) but in 2001 between the holyfield fights. a masterful performance against a fresher ruiz and he retires amidst talks of a lewis fight.

top 10 atg
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:58 PM   #3
DonBoxer
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

Monzon in 75. Where i would tell him to fight a 25-0-1 Hagler rather than a 36-4-0 Tonna. Monzons experience leads him to a UD.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

Joe Frazier. I would make it a point to shoot George Foreman before 1973 though.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

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Joe Frazier. I would make it a point to shoot George Foreman before 1973 though.
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

.............

Last edited by ecto55; 06-10-2011 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

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Originally Posted by zacbox View Post
At what stage of their career would you advise them to finish, to improve their legacy?

Ali. After Foreman? But then misses the Thrilla victory? After that but then doesn't win the crown for a 3rd time.

Or how about Louis. Should he have stayed retired the first time even with the money issues

Sugar Ray Leonard. After Hagler?

Lewis - would you advise him to fight Vitali again?

Be interested to hear some thoughts on some of the fighters from further back.
I would tell Jim Jeffries to stick to vanilla.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:21 AM   #8
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

If I was Floyd Patterson'smanager I would have gotten a rematch with Jimmy Ellis...Floyd would have nailed him in the rematch.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

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At what stage of their career would you advise them to finish, to improve their legacy?

Ali. After Foreman? But then misses the Thrilla victory? After that but then doesn't win the crown for a 3rd time.
With the benefit of hindsight, I think Shavers finished him as a championship caliber heavyweight. His timing, coordination and reflexes never looked right after that, even in his final win. The brain damage Earnie inflicted on him compromised his fine motor function to a degree that no amount of conditioning could repair. Muhammad had no memory of much of it, a red light flashing and siren going off when he never had retention issues before. (Significantly, Ali was not interviewed in the ring after this one as Earnie was. If he had been, maybe the resulting conversation would have caused him to be hounded into retirement then and there.)
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Or how about Louis. Should he have stayed retired the first time even with the money issues?
That he gave up the title after Walcott II speaks for itself. If he could have stayed retired even with the money issues, he would have. (An alternative might have been to flee the country to a nation which did not have an extradition treaty with the US. Jack Johnson evaded the Mann Act for a time by staying abroad, and Foreman skirted tax issues during his first title run with all four championship bouts on foreign soil. Joe was a far, far, far more loyal citizen than his treacherous government deserved.)

A competitive tune up with a relatively safe but tough opponent who could extend Joe might have been prudent before he took on Charles, but he had an opportunity to immediately challenge for the title out of retirement, and went for the money he needed. Going into the Marciano bout, he was 7-0 in 1951, and had just decisioned Bivins. He spotted Rocky two rounds, then rallied well to take rounds four and five on all cards. After that bout, it was Marciano, not he, who looked like he'd been in a fight (in contrast to how both Joe and Ezzard looked following their match), and Louis was still a top five heavyweight upon his retirement. In some ways, it's remarkable to me that he didn't carry on after Marciano to try generating more income for Uncle Sam through boxing.
Quote:
Sugar Ray Leonard. After Hagler?
Duran III. Although anticlimactic, this rubber match came following El Cholo's sensational performance with Barkley, so it was still a good win over e newly credible opponent. Both came back yet again in 1991, but only Duran had more wins left in his seemingly bottomless tank. (How much longer might he have lasted if that car crash had not finally deep sixed his career? He had no intentions of retiring following Camacho II.)
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Lewis - would you advise him to fight Vitali again?
No. I watched this one out of curiosity, and saw nothing to suggest Lennox would win a rematch.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

Dokes and Page, between 1981 and 1982.
Alex Ramos, after the Ted Sanders fiasco.
Mitch Green, around 1984
Jeff Chandler late 1983/early 1984.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

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Originally Posted by Boucher View Post
I would tell Jim Jeffries to stick to vanilla.
Or with a bit of clever matchmaking, you could go after Johnson, McVea and Langford before they peaked.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:15 PM   #12
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

eh, all these responses are cool, but, i would want to manage
guys that were on the cusp of that next level, but, due to poor
management just couldn't get it done. here are some that come
to mind:

emanuel burton (augustus)
bert cooper
maurice harris
derrick jefferson (i was always interested to see how d-train would
have done with a better trainer. he was destroying izon before he
blew his wad)
freddie pendleton - probably my top choice
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:17 PM   #13
BarryWashington
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
roy jones....

i start managing him in 1995 and guide him to announce a tour of englad after his win over vinny paz

he travels to england and defeats eubank to set up a stage for a huge benn fight, taking mcclellan's place.

after he knocks out benn late, he comes back and (due to ENORMOUS pressure) fights g-man. after a fight of the year battle, jones a well earned decision and gains respect for battling through adversity and fighting showing massive heart

he moves up to light heavy and his career goes much the same way except takes a 60/40 to fight DM in the states. a surprisingly easy and dominant win sets the tone for a slightly earlier move up to heavyweight

he takes on ruiz (again) but in 2001 between the holyfield fights. a masterful performance against a fresher ruiz and he retires amidst talks of a lewis fight.

top 10 atg
hate to burst your bubble, but, i cannot see rjj either:
a) agreeing to fight gerald mclellan or
b) being able to beat him
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:22 PM   #14
BarryWashington
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan1 View Post
Dokes and Page, between 1981 and 1982.
Alex Ramos, after the Ted Sanders fiasco.
Mitch Green, around 1984
Jeff Chandler late 1983/early 1984.
hell yeah. throw weaver & tate into the mix too.
may be even manage witherspoon & thomas.

jeff chandler is another good shout.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:22 PM   #15
Jorodz
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Default Re: With the benefit of hindsight If you could go back in time and manage a fighter..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryWashington View Post
hate to burst your bubble, but, i cannot see rjj either:
a) agreeing to fight gerald mclellan or
b) being able to beat him
a) i also find it very doubtful but i'm his manager and he'll do what i tell him!

b)there's nothing to suggest from what i've seen of the g-man of the mid 90s to suggest he would win barring a first round blowout, which the supermiddle jones was not nearly that vulnerable to
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