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Old 03-14-2011, 02:38 AM   #46
Hank
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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Originally Posted by Ramon Rojo View Post
Heavyweight schmeavyweight.

How heavy was Rocky? Oh yeah, 185 lbs. Not big enough even for cruiserweight today.

Rojo, consider that when he fought trainers would get them down as low in weight as possible. Marciano was 184 for title shot, 196 for second Charles fight, 188 for Moore. Reason he came in at 196--announced as 193 so fans would not think he was 'fat---was because of 2 night rain delay for fight. Him and Charles stayed sharp with light workouts, both came in strong but heavier.

Also look at smaller guys in height or weight who had success. Tyson, 5'10"
Holyfield, 183 till he went on weight training regiment, and he is under 6'1".
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:41 AM   #47
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

I'm pretty sure Rocky would need more time than Tyson took.

But eventually, the result would be the same.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:30 AM   #48
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

Marciano comfortably by TKO or KO Spinks would not be able to deal with the Rocks relentless pressure.
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:48 AM   #49
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

mariano KO3
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:58 AM   #50
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

Spinks is a tad too hard to gauge at heavyweight for me. He simply didn't spend enough time there, and the 5 or so fights that he had, were more a less a mixed bag of results against talents that ranged drastically all over the place. I think we can all concur that a prime Holmes would have beaten him in more than emphatic fashion, and a peak Tyson DID beat him in that way. Gerry Cooney and Steffen Tangstad, though entertaining bouts, were not suitable challenges.. If Spinks had stayed busier, and took on the likes of men like Witherspoon, Tucker, Douglas, and perhaps did a little better against Tyson, THEN I might be inclined to take part in a fantasy match between him and Marciano.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:35 PM   #51
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Spinks is a tad too hard to gauge at heavyweight for me. He simply didn't spend enough time there, and the 5 or so fights that he had, were more a less a mixed bag of results against talents that ranged drastically all over the place. I think we can all concur that a prime Holmes would have beaten him in more than emphatic fashion, and a peak Tyson DID beat him in that way. Gerry Cooney and Steffen Tangstad, though entertaining bouts, were not suitable challenges.. If Spinks had stayed busier, and took on the likes of men like Witherspoon, Tucker, Douglas, and perhaps did a little better against Tyson, THEN I might be inclined to take part in a fantasy match between him and Marciano.
This.
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:27 PM   #52
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Spinks is a tad too hard to gauge at heavyweight for me. He simply didn't spend enough time there, and the 5 or so fights that he had, were more a less a mixed bag of results against talents that ranged drastically all over the place. I think we can all concur that a prime Holmes would have beaten him in more than emphatic fashion, and a peak Tyson DID beat him in that way. Gerry Cooney and Steffen Tangstad, though entertaining bouts, were not suitable challenges.. If Spinks had stayed busier, and took on the likes of men like Witherspoon, Tucker, Douglas, and perhaps did a little better against Tyson, THEN I might be inclined to take part in a fantasy match between him and Marciano.
Your underselling Spinks. He twice fought very tough bouts with a still very good Holmes. When you consider the number of men Holmes went on to beat or remain competitive with for the next seven years or so it proves Spinks was a difficult fighter, period. He also showed a lot of game against a still very dangerous Cooney. That was a very impressive performance if you watch it and it was the one that pretty much ended Cooney as a fighter .. in addition, v.s. Marciano we are not talking about a large heavyweight but really a small cruisertweight. I think it is a terrific match up that could go either way ..without question the toughest match up Rocky actually ever fought ..
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Old 03-14-2011, 05:41 PM   #53
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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Spinks by decision if he sticks to boxing and does not decide to stand and trade he wins
Don't you think Spinks would be forced to trade?
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:21 PM   #54
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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=he grant;9136374]Your underselling Spinks.
Not at all... I never said that he wouldn't stand a chance against Marciano or any great fighter for that matter.. Only that he was difficult to gauge when comparing him to great fighters, because his resume at that weight was so thin.


Quote:
He twice fought very tough bouts with a still very good Holmes.
One of those meetings, he barely won, while the other, he arguably lost, and while even a 35 year old Holmes was still a formidable foe, it was the same man who may very well had been bested by Carl Williams.

Quote:
When you consider the number of men Holmes went on to beat or remain competitive with for the next seven years or so
Holmes lost to spinks, then went inactive for two years... He was destroyed easily by Tyson, and understandably so, given his age and inactivity.. He came back in 1991, and fought a second career, which consisted of mostly aged veterans, and journeyman... He did of course, beat Ray Mercer, but one win against a man who was taylor fit for him does not imply that he wasn't beyond seeing distance of prime, even several years earlier..


Quote:
it proves Spinks was a difficult fighter, period.
Spinks was very difficult period... Agreed... But he was also ill-fit to be facing natural heavyweights in an era consisting of a lot of big punchers in their primes, and ones who were fast starters at that... Holmes was never a big hitter, he was passed his best, and arguably complacent. That's a good combo for an awkward fighter going into a bout with all the right angles, and still he barely won, and probably lost the rematch...


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He also showed a lot of game against a still very dangerous Cooney.
When did he show game? He was never in trouble in that bout, facing a man who had fought all but 3 times in 5 years against nobodies, and had spent much of that time enjoying his fortune while developing bad lifestyle habits.. Cooney's last fight prior to facing Spinks was like 16 months earlier, and lasted all but one round.. He showed up well over his best weight, and I've heard many analysts comment on how unfocussed he was... Frankly, I think James Tillis or an aged Bugner would have beaten Cooney on that night...


Quote:
That was a very impressive performance if you watch it and it was the one that pretty much ended Cooney as a fighter ..
Cooney's career was ended well before that, and a number of men at the time, could have done a similar job on him....


i
Quote:
n addition, v.s. Marciano we are not talking about a large heavyweight but really a small cruisertweight. I think it is a terrific match up that could go either way ..without question the toughest match up Rocky actually ever fought ..
To clearify, I wouldn't count out Spinks, and never have.... But again, my biggest problems with spinks was that he had very few fights at heavyweight, was a slow starter, and fought very few quality men in their primes... I might give him a chance to trouble or beat Marciano, but his resume at 200 lbs, leaves a lot of question marks, and that's without even comparing styles, which wouldn't be in Spink's favor anyway...
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:32 PM   #55
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Not at all... I never said that he wouldn't stand a chance against Marciano or any great fighter for that matter.. Only that he was difficult to gauge when comparing him to great fighters, because his resume at that weight was so thin.




One of those meetings, he barely won, while the other, he arguably lost, and while even a 35 year old Holmes was still a formidable foe, it was the same man who may very well had been bested by Carl Williams.



Holmes lost to spinks, then went inactive for two years... He was destroyed easily by Tyson, and understandably so, given his age and inactivity.. He came back in 1991, and fought a second career, which consisted of mostly aged veterans, and journeyman... He did of course, beat Ray Mercer, but one win against a man who was taylor fit for him does not imply that he wasn't beyond seeing distance of prime, even several years earlier..




Spinks was very difficult period... Agreed... But he was also ill-fit to be facing natural heavyweights in an era consisting of a lot of big punchers in their primes, and ones who were fast starters at that... Holmes was never a big hitter, he was passed his best, and arguably complacent. That's a good combo for an awkward fighter going into a bout with all the right angles, and still he barely won, and probably lost the rematch...




When did he show game? He was never in trouble in that bout, facing a man who had fought all but 3 times in 5 years against nobodies, and had spent much of that time enjoying his fortune while developing bad lifestyle habits.. Cooney's last fight prior to facing Spinks was like 16 months earlier, and lasted all but one round.. He showed up well over his best weight, and I've heard many analysts comment on how unfocussed he was... Frankly, I think James Tillis or an aged Bugner would have beaten Cooney on that night...




Cooney's career was ended well before that, and a number of men at the time, could have done a similar job on him....


i

To clearify, I wouldn't count out Spinks, and never have.... But again, my biggest problems with spinks was that he had very few fights at heavyweight, was a slow starter, and fought very few quality men in their primes... I might give him a chance to trouble or beat Marciano, but his resume at 200 lbs, leaves a lot of question marks, and that's without even comparing styles, which wouldn't be in Spink's favor anyway...
Now how about using the same skills to honestly breakdown Rocky's accomplishments and opposition ? Start with the legs on the Charles and Walcott he fought and how it impacted their ability and style of fighting them ..
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:56 PM   #56
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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Originally Posted by he grant View Post
, v.s. Marciano we are not talking about a large heavyweight but really a small cruisertweight. I think it is a terrific match up that could go either way ..without question the toughest match up Rocky actually ever fought ..


No. archie Moore was knocking out rated big heavyweights like bob baker and beat nino valdes when he fought rocky. Ezzard charles was knocking out rated heavyweights like coley walace and bob satterfeild when he chalenged rocky. Both presented bigger tests than mike spinks the natural 170 pounder who was a bit shakey second time around against holmes.

Moore and charles were not coming off one slippery win over an old champion (who posibly beat him in the return) as their only HW pedigree at the elite level so both of their credentials as outstanding contenders at heavyweight blows spinks out of the water as a big test.

You keep saying these two were old but their form against the curent crop was STILL outstanding.

The 197lb champion Walcott, beat or knocked out some realy big sized rated heavyweights like lee q murry, joe baksi, elmer ray and curtis sheperd, against marciano walcott had just beat charles who but for one SD was on a 40 odd fight run against a whos who of HW contenders since the war.

How on earth would mike spinks be a bigger test than the guys marciano fought?

I can recall Micheals entire career. After turning pro at 165lb spinks was an excelent lightheavyweight and dominated that division, he was magnificent against 5'7'' qwai and his spinks jinx right hander was a winner of a punch at the weight.

The point is for spinks to be regarded at heavyweight he must be measured against the elite fighters of that division of which he did not dominate.

Against Holmes he knew he was against a tired guy who only just caught up with truth wiliams last time, he knew with speed and movement if he kept to a strict plan he could "get away with it", and it worked - but it was not beating the best of holmes or anyway near dominating a division chock full of contenders he might not beat like:

Thomas
tucker
tubbs
witherspoon
page
weaver
coetzee
truth wiliams
bruno
terel biggs

Last edited by choklab; 03-15-2011 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:54 PM   #57
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

Spinks had the skills to keep this interesting for a bit, and I think he'd be ahead through 5, maybe even drop Rocky with a sneaky right hand.

But, inevitably, Rocky would get to him, and Michael would fold, I think. He was past it, but the way he literally just packed it in vs. Tyson leads me to believe that when Rocky got to him and really started putting his mitts on him, Spinks would likely fold.
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Old 03-14-2011, 11:42 PM   #58
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

Its a disgrace thread tbh
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Old 03-15-2011, 10:44 AM   #59
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
No. archie Moore was knocking out rated big heavyweights like bob baker and beat nino valdes when he fought rocky. Ezzard charles was knocking out rated heavyweights like coley walace and bob satterfeild when he chalenged rocky. Both presented bigger tests than mike spinks the natural 170 pounder who was a bit shakey second time around against holmes.

Moore and charles were not coming off one slippery win over an old champion (who posibly beat him in the return) as their only HW pedigree at the elite level so both of their credentials as outstanding contenders at heavyweight blows spinks out of the water as a big test.

You keep saying these two were old but their form against the curent crop was STILL outstanding.

The 197lb champion Walcott, beat or knocked out some realy big sized rated heavyweights like lee q murry, joe baksi, elmer ray and curtis sheperd, against marciano walcott had just beat charles who but for one SD was on a 40 odd fight run against a whos who of HW contenders since the war.

How on earth would mike spinks be a bigger test than the guys marciano fought?

I can recall Micheals entire career. After turning pro at 165lb spinks was an excelent lightheavyweight and dominated that division, he was magnificent against 5'7'' qwai and his spinks jinx right hander was a winner of a punch at the weight.

The point is for spinks to be regarded at heavyweight he must be measured against the elite fighters of that division of which he did not dominate.

Against Holmes he knew he was against a tired guy who only just caught up with truth wiliams last time, he knew with speed and movement if he kept to a strict plan he could "get away with it", and it worked - but it was not beating the best of holmes or anyway near dominating a division chock full of contenders he might not beat like:

Thomas
tucker
tubbs
witherspoon
page
weaver
coetzee
truth wiliams
bruno
terel biggs
very well said and I don't expect a rebuttal of any merit coming from those with an agenda
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:41 AM   #60
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Default Re: Rocky Marciano Vs Mike Spinks

Mike Spinks was such a clever fighter. Can´t say the same on Marciano. Rocky was´nt as impressive as his myth. A hardhitting brawler with a big fighting heart fighting in an era where the mop decided who´s in or out. Marciano fought and defended the title against blokes he couldn´t lose to.
Spinks was a great fighter - who sadly is best renembered for his 72 seconds against Tyson. Marciano would´ndt have chance against Spinks. Spinks would outsmart and outbox him for an easy 12 round decision.
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