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Old 03-11-2011, 12:00 PM   #1
Sangria
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Default So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

I've seen an earlier thread about The Manassa Mauler fighting The Galveston Giant behind the scenes around 1920, but was kept quiet. Why was it hush hush? I'm quite intrigued and want to hear more about this.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

Wrong. Chinese whispers have lead to you asking this question. There was a snuff slideshow porno circulating amongst Gentleman's clubs in the 1920's named, 'Dark Night, Light Morning'.

The fantasy depicted Johnson skewering a young white woman through the shoulder with his BBC. Jack walks in, Dempsey rolls Johnson all over the room then throws him through the window. Dempsey then proceeds to make love to the young woman, gives her a beating, then makes Johnson clean the sheets. And so the natural order of things is restored. America is saved.
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

I've heard the rumours, but they sound very far-fetched to say the least.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
I've heard the rumours, but they sound very far-fetched to say the least.
Dempsey supposedly scored a 7th round knockout and wasn't allowed to discuss the events until after Johnson's death. It does sound farfetched. Just interested in how the rumor came about.

Maybe Burt Bienstock has some insight on the matter!
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

Probably didn't happen.

I will assume that it didn't unless some prety compelling evidence emerges.
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Old 03-11-2011, 07:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangria View Post
Dempsey supposedly scored a 7th round knockout and wasn't allowed to discuss the events until after Johnson's death. It does sound farfetched. Just interested in how the rumor came about.

Maybe Burt Bienstock has some insight on the matter!
S, I'm not a spring chicken, but I'm not that old.! No. I have never heard about such a bout,between a retired Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey. I have read tons of boxing mags and books since I was a child, and NEVER read of
such a bout in private. Not once!.Jack Johnson, 17years older than Dempsey was through as a fighter in 1915,when Willard stopped him in Havana.
Jack Dempsey kod Willard in Toledo,1919,and was such a sensation after that
any private fight with an old Jack Johnson,would have certainly be eventually revealed soon after by a witness, to such an unlikely event...
Many years later i shook the hand of Jack Johnson in NY, a year or so before he was killed in a car crash driving to the second Joe Louis/ Billy Conn fight in 1946...Cheers S...
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

Thanks Burt. Surprised not a lot of people know about this. I'm trying to do some research.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:44 PM   #8
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

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Originally Posted by Sangria View Post
Thanks Burt. Surprised not a lot of people know about this. I'm trying to do some research.
I have "seen the rumours", if you will excuse the pun, but if you find any compeling evidence it will be a first.
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Old 03-13-2011, 05:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

1921 ??...or so rumor has it...dempsey down in 5th to win in 7..happened somewhere in canada...johnson was mid-forties.

all bollocks of course....came about cause a relative of dempseys made a play about the fight if it were to happen...
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

This, I think, is where it all began:

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I would very much like it to be true - Johnson did have a few "private" fights like this in his early career, after all, as did the likes of Corbett and Choynski before him - but it seems just too unlikely.

Either way, though, it's crazy from the promoters' viewpoint that Dempsey/Johnson wasn't staged out in the open. It would have been huge - Jeffries/Johnson in reverse, almost, with Johnson as over-the-hill ex-champion and "Great Black Hope" - and a far easier fight for Dempsey than Wills.

Last edited by The Old School; 03-13-2011 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

if it did happen...if...then it seems more like a sparring session that went serious.

thats a great find that article....well done.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old School View Post
This, I think, is where it all began:

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I would very much like it to be true - Johnson did have a few "private" fights like this in his early career, after all, as did the likes of Corbett and Choynski before him - but it seems just too unlikely.

Either way, though, it's crazy from the promoters' viewpoint that Dempsey/Johnson wasn't staged out in the open. It would have been huge - Jeffries/Johnson in reverse, almost, with Johnson as over-the-hill ex-champion and "Great Black Hope" - and a far easier fight for Dempsey than Wills.
I am not so sure it is crazy that it didnt happen.

Would anyone really want to see a repeat of the race riots? Dempseys gates were becoming million dollar fairs, and other fighters were also promoted to massive gates (Firpo and Wills being two who had huge gates). Why risk staging a fight that could easily result in the fight game being outlawed again, and could also easily result in race riots that might result in deaths. I can see why the fight didnt take place.

One other thing that has always puzzled me is why Johnson was never in World Title calculations. We all know he was old, but regardless of this (think Holyfield Holmes/Formenan) or Jeffries Corbett/Fitzsimmons or Ali Frazier III, Duran Leonard III or any other world title shot with an aged champion. there was massive money to be won, yet Johnson, desperately in need of money, never really tried to put all that much pressure on Dempsey to make a fight!
This is certainly out of character.

I cant remember off hand, how highly Johnson ranked Dempsey. But i must say, Johnson wasnt against elevating those he fought to make himself look better. If he ranked Dempsey highly, it would be very interesting to say the least.

I havent read that article before, and while it is hard to believe, I dont think it is totally impossible.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

Highly unlikely, but who would write that article out of their arse without it occurring? If it is true, it's incredibly impressive how a faded, inactive, and rusty Johnson won 5 to Dempsey's 2 rounds. Imagine what a prime Johnson would've done to him.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

If they fought, Johnson would have to have won. Because that's the result that would have been hidden. In other words, if Dempsey KO'ed Johnson there would have been soda's named after him!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TroTAs25RkU[/ame]

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Old 03-14-2011, 07:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: So...Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson actually fought

the fight was scheduled but was cancelled as they both had jaundice
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