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Old 03-14-2011, 01:55 PM   #1
bman100
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Default How good was Tiger Flowers?

"Flowers must rate among the top left handers of all time and, while over-shadowed publicity-wise by the likes of Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Jack Johnson, Joe Walcott, Joe Gans, George Dixon, Sam Langford, "Sugar Ray" Robinson, Henry Armstrong and other great black fighters, he must be ranked on a par with them, yet despite his fine ring record and top-flight ability, he is still a "forgotten champion."

-Sports Illustrated

Was this man really on par with the guys mentioned here, if so why is he forgotten, surely a man with this much talent would be remmebered if he was that good? He beat an old Harry Greb but got KO'd by a 42 year old, blind Sam Langford, even so does he rank with Robinson, Armstrong and Langford?
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

good enough to **** up greb
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

I would not put him in the same company as the names listed.

He was none the less an exceptional fighter. If he lasted the distance he could outpoint darn near anyone.
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Old 03-14-2011, 04:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

I think he was very good but also came along at the right time. The division was starting to thin out and age when he came along. Nonetheless he was a very difficult guy to beat. A fast, left handed volume puncher. Doesnt get much more irritating than that.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T View Post
good enough to **** up greb
I just finished reading "the fearless harry greb"


in the first fight

-The ref who was gunboat smith (who Greb had KO'd) thought greb had won.

-frank getty wrote that "many experts figured that the worst the former champion should have had was a draw. Greb was the stronger puncher, and at times had Flowers in real trouble"

- many believe that Flowers won the fight not because how well he fought, but on the less than normal showing from greb.

- hype igone writer for the new yok world news had greb winning 7 rds flowers 5 rds and 3 even

-Getty for united new wrote : the worst greb should have had was a draw.



Greb won the 2nd fight.

The ref had it for Greb but both the judges gave it to Flowers. They had Flowers winning 7 rds, Greb winning 6 and 2 even. Greb dropped Flowers in the 8th round and dominated most the round which should have been a 10-8 round yet both judges gave the 8th rd to Flowers lol

Also before the rematch greb had split with his manager mason and was kind of on a trial run with jimmy johnson. johnson was mctigue's manager and he had won a controversial decision over flowers back in the day. Flowers and his camp particularly his manager walk miller started crying to the NY boxing commision and newspapers that the fight was already fixed etc etc Yet Greb was the one who ended up getting robbed.

So a 32 year old, blind in one eye, coming off a car accident (after Walker fight and greb had stated that he never felt the same after it) still beat Flowers...
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
I just finished reading "the fearless harry greb"


in the first fight

-The ref who was gunboat smith (who Greb had KO'd) thought greb had won.

-frank getty wrote that "many experts figured that the worst the former champion should have had was a draw. Greb was the stronger puncher, and at times had Flowers in real trouble"

- many believe that Flowers won the fight not because how well he fought, but on the less than normal showing from greb.

- hype igone writer for the new yok world news had greb winning 7 rds flowers 5 rds and 3 even

-Getty for united new wrote : the worst greb should have had was a draw.



Greb won the 2nd fight.

The ref had it for Greb but both the judges gave it to Flowers. They had Flowers winning 7 rds, Greb winning 6 and 2 even. Greb dropped Flowers in the 8th round and dominated most the round which should have been a 10-8 round yet both judges gave the 8th rd to Flowers lol

Also before the rematch greb had split with his manager mason and was kind of on a trial run with jimmy johnson. johnson was mctigue's manager and he had won a controversial decision over flowers back in the day. Flowers and his camp particularly his manager walk miller started crying to the NY boxing commision and newspapers that the fight was already fixed etc etc Yet Greb was the one who ended up getting robbed.

So a 32 year old, blind in one eye, coming off a car accident (after Walker fight and greb had stated that he never felt the same after it) still beat Flowers...
Very well said V.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Greb didnt drop Flowers. He wrestled him to the canvas. Furthermore in those days they didnt use a ten point must system or supplemental scoring so there would have been no extra point to Greb for a KD.
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton View Post
Greb didnt drop Flowers. He wrestled him to the canvas. Furthermore in those days they didnt use a ten point must system or supplemental scoring so there would have been no extra point to Greb for a KD.
Welsh wrote : "Greb shot a hard short right to the champion's chin. Down like a log went Flowers, rolled over and scampered to his feet like a scared Rabbit"

the Post wrote "winding up Greb caught Flowers with a terrific right to the stomach and the Champion hit the floor"

New York Times wrote " Flowers simply got his feet tangled up as he dug a left to the body and squatted in Grebs corner"

so there are different versions. He hurt Flowers in the later rounds multiple times in both fights so i don't have a have a hard time thinking he dropped him.

P.S. Have you read that Greb book and if so what do you think of it>?
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

The vast majority of reports state that Flowers tripped as he was moving away from Greb.

I have read the other book. I think it was rushed and has a massive amount of errors and holes in it.
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Old 03-14-2011, 10:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T View Post
good enough to **** up greb
Nonsense! Greb probably should have won all three fights. Vysotsky left a very nice post on it. Nice work, Vysotsky.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

The greatest booster of Tiger Flowers abilities was not only Harry Greb but Greb's Mgr Red Mason as well.
1924 Outta shape Greb, barnstorming through an Ohio whistle stop, ran into a hellofva peaked up never better Flowers.
Greb and Red sang Tigers praises to high heavens. Greb spoke of favoring him vs Dempsey over 10.
It was this night Tiger always recollected as his greatest performance.
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton View Post
I think he was very good but also came along at the right time. The division was starting to thin out and age when he came along. Nonetheless he was a very difficult guy to beat. A fast, left handed volume puncher. Doesnt get much more irritating than that.
K,as you state,Tiger Flowers was "very good",as I concur. But what does this say about Jack Delaney who ko'd Tiger Flowers two times in one month in 1925 ?
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:03 AM   #13
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
K,as you state,Tiger Flowers was "very good",as I concur. But what does this say about Jack Delaney who ko'd Tiger Flowers two times in one month in 1925 ?

He actually KOd him three times in one month, but thats another story.

It says Delaney was a very good puncher which was poison to Flowers. Also, dont let people tell you Delaney beat Flowers because he was a LHW. In reality Flowers had spent most of his career fighting at LHW, whioe Delaney had spent most of his fighting at MW. In the first fight Delaney only outweighed Tiger by a pound and a half, in the second Tiger actually outweighed Delaney.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:10 PM   #14
burt bienstock
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton View Post
He actually KOd him three times in one month, but thats another story.

It says Delaney was a very good puncher which was poison to Flowers. Also, dont let people tell you Delaney beat Flowers because he was a LHW. In reality Flowers had spent most of his career fighting at LHW, whioe Delaney had spent most of his fighting at MW. In the first fight Delaney only outweighed Tiger by a pound and a half, in the second Tiger actually outweighed Delaney.
Yes K, I know about Delaney koing Tigers in the first bout,and Flowers corner squalking about Tiger beating the 10 count, so Ovilla Chapdelaine,being the
gentleman that he was agreed for the fight to continue,and in the next round
Delaney flattened Flowers once again.Two ko's in one bout...
Jimmy Slattery had Jack Delaney's number though ... cheers.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: How good was Tiger Flowers?

You Grebtards are even worse than the Robertards. Instead of making inumerable excuses for the loses(in Duran's case), you straight up claim that he won the fights against Tunney and Flowers which he is recorded losing.
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