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Old 03-15-2011, 01:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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No footage of the ko ,unfortunately.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

In no 3 " a couple of heavyweight fights, " Firpo's ko of Willard is shown.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

Remember that 'power' is a combination of speed and strength.

Foreman:

Strength - 9.5/10
Speed - 4.5/10

Louis:

Strength - 8/10
Speed - 8.5/10
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Remember that 'power' is a combination of speed and strength.

Foreman:

Strength - 9.5/10
Speed - 4.5/10

Louis:

Strength - 8/10
Speed - 8.5/10
this is how i see it. when someone says 'he hit me hard' the effect that that person feels is a combination of the punch's accuracy, speed, strength, snap etc... every now and again everything would come together for a foreman punch, but the majority of the time, louis' punches had the greater effect.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

I was about to easily dismiss Louis and only say he was a better puncher but thinking about it now I believe Louis may have hit harder as speed+technique+accuracy can equate to power and Louis excels Foreman in those categories. I still would not want to get hit flush by either while they were in their boxing careers.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

It is certainly plausible that Louis hit harder, but I suspect that he didn't.

Louis's results can more readily be atributed to delivery than Foreman's, so that arguably bumps his power down a peg.
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Remember that 'power' is a combination of speed and strength.

Foreman:

Strength - 9.5/10
Speed - 4.5/10

Louis:

Strength - 8/10
Speed - 8.5/10
I don't disagree with your assessment ,though I would include timing, but how did you arrive at these numbers?
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Old 03-15-2011, 03:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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It is certainly plausible that Louis hit harder, but I suspect that he didn't.

Louis's results can more readily be atributed to delivery than Foreman's, so that arguably bumps his power down a peg.
Jersey Joe Walcott stated that Marciano had more one punch power than Louis, and he said it while he was sitting next to Joe.
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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I don't disagree with your assessment ,though I would include timing, but how did you arrive at these numbers?
Timing is another aspect altogether and not so purely physical as speed and power, however, technique is the big one. Technique turns a light puncher into a heavy puncher.

What's wrong with those numbers?
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:35 PM   #24
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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Timing is another aspect altogether and not so purely physical as speed and power, however, technique is the big one. Technique turns a light puncher into a heavy puncher.

What's wrong with those numbers?
On what are they based?
Did you just catch them out of the air?
I don't think you can define what makes a puncher.
Ring magazine tried ,they picked their choices and ,confidently wrote down a lot of waffle about muscles and leverage ,fact is punchers come in all shapes and sizes and no one really knows why,imo.

You have the technique of a Louis,an Arguello,the bludgeoning strength of a Foreman, the wildman swinging from the floor of a Ketchel, or a Jenkins, the precision,of a Fitz, or a Langford.
The skinny bangers who drop them for dead, like Wilde, Foster,Saddler.
The powerhouses, like Liston,Williams Shavers, Baer, all of them contradict each other.
Why did Julian Jackson hit so hard, ditto Lausse, McLellan,? How come Fitz and Choynski could leave you flat out like a dead mackeral ? Whereas hulks like Jeffries rarely did?
Truth is we don't know.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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Originally Posted by Boucher View Post
On what are they based?
Did you just catch them out of the air?
I don't think you can define what makes a puncher.
Ring magazine tried ,they picked their choices and ,confidently wrote down a lot of waffle about muscles and leverage ,fact is punchers come in all shapes and sizes and no one really knows why,imo.

You have the technique of a Louis,an Arguello,the bludgeoning strength of a Foreman, the wildman swinging from the floor of a Ketchel, or a Jenkins, the precision,of a Fitz, or a Langford.
The skinny bangers who drop them for dead, like Wilde, Foster,Saddler.
The powerhouses, like Liston,Williams Shavers, Baer, all of them contradict each other.
Why did Julian Jackson hit so hard, ditto Lausse, McLellan,? How come Fitz and Choynski could leave you flat out like a dead mackeral ? Whereas hulks like Jeffries rarely did?
Truth is we don't know.
Did you think I was asserting my claims with conviction backed up by scientific evidence?

Of course everything we write in these scenarios are estimates. That's obvious.

But besides that, I wasn't trying to quantify either of them in terms of 'how good a puncher' they were. Merely strength and speed, the latter of which is quite visual and evidenced on film, the former, less so but still to some degree. We can clearly see that Louis had some quick hands for his size, and we can probably guess that Foreman was stronger. He's quite blatantly slower on camera, probably average or below average for a heavyweight in the speed department.

However, I believe we can understand the differences between punchers with a little bit of knowledge on how power is produced, leverage, how punches affect the brain and the general mechanics of the human body.

P.S. - the RING punchers list was okay at times, but grossly inconsistent.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Did you think I was asserting my claims with conviction backed up by scientific evidence?

Of course everything we write in these scenarios are estimates. That's obvious.

But besides that, I wasn't trying to quantify either of them in terms of 'how good a puncher' they were. Merely strength and speed, the latter of which is quite visual and evidenced on film, the former, less so but still to some degree. We can clearly see that Louis had some quick hands for his size, and we can probably guess that Foreman was stronger. He's quite blatantly slower on camera, probably average or below average for a heavyweight in the speed department.

However, I believe we can understand the differences between punchers with a little bit of knowledge on how power is produced, leverage, how punches affect the brain and the general mechanics of the human body.

P.S. - the RING punchers list was okay at times, but grossly inconsistent.
I found their explanations unconvincing ,and contradictory.
I met Reg Gutteridge a couple of times, he was a nice guy,and interesting to talk to at ringside,but some of the selections, in his book the" Big Punchers " baffled me, Cerdan,Hagler, Downes, Charnley?
I think its a mystery why some have awesome power ,just as why some can take thunderbolt shots, and some fall, when you land a jab square on them.
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

it is the fact ,
foreman did punch harder and had moar strength and stability .
Louis did have better speed and accuracy ,
but not comparable to the brutal raw power ,
of Foreman .
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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Originally Posted by sirhenrycooper6 View Post
it is the fact ,
foreman did punch harder and had moar strength and stability .
Louis did have better speed and accuracy ,
but not comparable to the brutal raw power ,
of Foreman .
That 's it then ,glad it's sorted
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

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Originally Posted by Boucher View Post
I found their explanations unconvincing ,and contradictory.
I met Reg Gutteridge a couple of times, he was a nice guy,and interesting to talk to at ringside,but some of the selections, in his book the" Big Punchers " baffled me, Cerdan,Hagler, Downes, Charnley?
I think its a mystery why some have awesome power ,just as why some can take thunderbolt shots, and some fall, when you land a jab square on them.
Ah, you own 'Big Punchers' too

Good book, but yes, as you said, some of the selections were strange. Hagler wasn't a bad choice, I mean, at the time of writing he was knocking everybody out. While not a great hitter alongside Louis, he was a big banger in his own era.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Did Louis hit harder than Foreman?

I believe Louis has become underrated as a puncher by a few because he did everything so damn well while the others did not .. almost like giving the other guy a round because he only lost it buy a bit instead of a ton ... Louis , to me, was as dangerous a puncher as I've ever seen on film ... He destroyed guys with iron chins like Schmeling , the Baer Brothers and Galento ... see the shots he pulverized gigantic Abe Simon with and watch the huge man cringe with pain ... Foreman was the physically stronger man but then again I'd pick Foreman , naturally, over any heavyweight in strength ...

Maybe Chuvalo said it best when comparing Foreman w Frazier power wise ... put Louis in as a combination of the best of both ...

Funny hearing Frazier comparing Foreman and Ali in the ring ... on guy talks, jabs and runs while the other guy hits like a sledge hammer ... sound effect thrown in ...

Best single shot I may lean to Foreman by a hair but Louis was by far the better puncher .. he'd throw and land more hard shots ...
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