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Old 03-15-2011, 10:54 AM   #1
shommel
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Default tony zale question...

who did he take a worse beating from graziano 1 or 2 of which there is no film and in 3 he destroyed rocky , or from cerdan which is horrible to watch on film, marcel really beat him up.?
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:20 PM   #2
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Cerdan was a killer, now this is horrible to watch [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:31 PM   #3
bodhi
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Zale was already past prime against Graziano and even more against Cerdan. I think Cerdan was the worse one even so Graziano probably landed the harder punches.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: tony zale question...

loads of people say Zale was past it, and he was defo at the end of his career...
But SO WAS CERDAN, I think there was only a year or something between the start of their careers.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Zales career arc primes out vs Abrams in 1941. He wrecked Abrams who was favored to win that fight. Abrams had mastered Zales conqueror Soose.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:45 PM   #6
burt bienstock
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAKKA View Post
Zales career arc primes out vs Abrams in 1941. He wrecked Abrams who was favored to win that fight. Abrams had mastered Zales conqueror Soose.
S,you are correct,saying Tony Zale's prime ended in 1941 when Zale was 28
years old.After his fight with the bigger Billy Conn,Zale went into the sevice for FOUR years,and was way past his peak in 1946,when he resumed his career...Marcel Cerdan was 3 years younger than Zale,when they met in 1948.
I saw Cerdan fight Georgie Abrams in 1946 @ MSG,winning a very close decision from the tough to beat Abrams.
When Cerdan stopped the shopworn 35 year old Zale in 1948, Zale had gone to war with the likes of Nate Bolden, Al Hostak,Billy Soose, Fred Apostoli, Billy Conn,Rocky Graziano [prime],much tougher opposition than Marcel Cerdan fought. All these tough bouts,a four year layoff, and spotting Cerdan 3 years, gave Marcel an advantage when they hooked up in 1948.
In their primes, I take Tony Zale..
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Its easy to think of Cerdan as a wrecking ball when you see him against Ferrer... It also easy to forget Ferrer was nothing special when you concentrate solely on what Cerdan is doing.

I disagree totally that Zale wrecked Abrams. The war shortened Abrams career far more than Zale did. That was a good competetive fight but not a demolition.
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Old 03-15-2011, 04:48 PM   #8
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[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Steve please, Criss Dundee told me this so game set and match.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: tony zale question...

So a guy who has a competetive match with Zale, spends the next four years in the Army, comes out and beats Belloise and Raadick (both of whom were solid professionals) and gives both a prime Robinson and Cerdan hell is wrecked??? Im not buying it. Fighters who are "wrecked" typically dont come back from a four year layoff to give two of the P4P best fighters in the world ten kinds of hell. A wrecked fighter would have been destroyed by both Robinson and Cerdan and arguably even Belloise who could punch a hole in a brick wall.
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Old 03-15-2011, 05:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shommel View Post
who did he take a worse beating from graziano 1 or 2 of which there is no film and in 3 he destroyed rocky , or from cerdan which is horrible to watch on film, marcel really beat him up.?
Cerdan ,imo he was dead on his feet ,only his nuts kept him upright for so long.
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Well I was not under delusions when Criss Dundee said before Hank Kaplan and myselfe Georgie was never the same after the Zale fight.
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Old 03-15-2011, 06:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: tony zale question...

I dont doubt that he said it I just dont agree with him.
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: tony zale question...

Thats a puzzler Steve honestly. Criss was one of the great minds of boxing
and Georgie's Mgr!
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Old 03-15-2011, 07:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: tony zale question...

I dont deny either point. I just dont agree with him. Zale had to come from behind to beat Abrams in a close bout (that the AP scored for Abrams) that saw Zale decked once and almost decked at least once more and for which the deciding factor was a cut eye which bothered Abrams in the later rounds. Years later this supposedly "wrecked" version of Abrams lost by a hair to P4P great SRR and Cerdan (who also had to come on late to win, and who in rounds was given 5 to 5 by the judges and only won with supplementary points). So regardless of what Chris Dundee said I dont agree that Abrams was wrecked. I think its pretty clear he had something in the tank. To say he was wrecked would lead one to believe that he was SO GOOD in his prime that even after being WRECKED by Zale and out of the sport for four years he was able to hold two of the greatest fighters of the age damn near even. So you dont think Chris might have been overstating the worth of his fighter a bit by insinuating that?
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:05 PM   #15
SLAKKA
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Default Re: tony zale question...

I dont deny either point. I just dont agree with him. Zale had to come from behind to beat Abrams in a close bout (that the AP scored for Abrams) that saw Zale decked once and almost decked at least once more and for which the deciding factor was a cut eye which bothered Abrams in the later rounds. Years later this supposedly "wrecked" version of Abrams lost by a hair to P4P great SRR and Cerdan (who also had to come on late to win, and who in rounds was given 5 to 5 by the judges and only won with supplementary points). So regardless of what Chris Dundee said I dont agree that Abrams was wrecked. I think its pretty clear he had something in the tank. To say he was wrecked would lead one to believe that he was SO GOOD in his prime that even after being WRECKED by Zale and out of the sport for four years he was able to hold two of the greatest fighters of the age damn near even. So you dont think Chris might have been overstating the worth of his fighter a bit by insinuating that?

If he (chriss) was insinuating Georgie was wrecked after Zale fight now ya got me confused.
Wrecked was my description. Criss said he was never the same after Zale.
Theres lot more to that Zale fight than what AP said.
What else have you read?
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