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Old 03-23-2011, 05:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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I cant remember off hand, but I am fairly certain that he would have been thrown or taken a knee quite a bit in the Kilrain Sullivan marathon, that that went for so many rounds, with a round ending when one fighter takes a knee. Also, didnt Charley Mitchell knock him down once?

Yes.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Official knockdowns only. We could go on forever debating what were slips, what were knockdowns etc.
Oliver McCall has never been down. He is lineal. There is your answer. If you want to use Ring Magazine champions, Vitali Klitschko has also never been down.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:41 AM   #18
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Nope, if we're including their entire careers, as you said we were, then Charles holds that distinction with 30, I believe. 15 of those coming in back to back fights with Bivins and Marshall at Middleweight.
Chalres holds the edge. 30 to 18 over Patterson. I beleive Walcott was down a lot as well. Anyone know the offical count?
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:07 AM   #19
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Oliver McCall has never been down. He is lineal. There is your answer. If you want to use Ring Magazine champions, Vitali Klitschko has also never been down.
Sorry Mendoza, but Oliver McCall was never a lineal champion.

Only ever an alphabet champion.

Vitali has the better argument, but i dont really think there is much point in never being down, if you have 2 tkos including one quit on a stool.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:12 AM   #20
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Sorry Mendoza, but Oliver McCall was never a lineal champion.

Only ever an alphabet champion.

Vitali has the better argument, but i dont really think there is much point in never being down, if you have 2 tkos including one quit on a stool.
Vitali never was lineal.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:18 AM   #21
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Vitali never was lineal.
He has a better argument to being lineal than Oliver McCall had. To be fair, he probably has a better argument to being lineal than Wlad has, although Wlad himself, does seem to have a growing claim. The reality is that the Lineal title will chrystalize as soon as someone beats at least one of the brothers and faces both. If Vitali beats this person, he will be recognised as lineal from Lennox, i think. And Wlad if he wins will probably gain his recognition from abouot Chagaev or Byrd II, which is when i think he probably started deserving it.
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Old 03-23-2011, 07:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

I'm not sure how Vitali gets a top2 spot in 2004 after having a win over Kirk Johnson who previously lost to Ruiz who in turn had more ranked wins than Vitali and how can Vitali be rated over Byrd who officially if nothing else beat him? Sketchy, Sanders sort of has a case for top2 with his Wlad win
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:19 AM   #23
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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I'm not sure how Vitali gets a top2 spot in 2004 after having a win over Kirk Johnson who previously lost to Ruiz who in turn had more ranked wins than Vitali and how can Vitali be rated over Byrd who officially if nothing else beat him? Sketchy, Sanders sort of has a case for top2 with his Wlad win
Because going into 2004...

Vitali was made Lewis' #1 contender for obvious reasons, they just had one hell of a fight and a rematch was in demand to settle the score. He was #1 based off his performance against Lewis..going into the Johnson blow out.

Sanders upset #1 Wlad.

Former #2 Chris Byrd only fought once against Oquendo in a disappointing performance, followed by a draw against Golota right before Sanders/Vitali.

Ruiz had just been embarressed by Roy Jones and his lost his ranking to him.

Its not an exact science but I can see why the rankings ended up how they did.

Last edited by The Mongoose; 03-23-2011 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
Sorry Mendoza, but Oliver McCall was never a lineal champion.

Only ever an alphabet champion.

Vitali has the better argument, but i dont really think there is much point in never being down, if you have 2 tkos including one quit on a stool.

Well, prior to actually being decked at the end of his career by Danny Nardico, that was Jake LaMotta's claim to fame...not being decked, even though he did worse than Vitali by throwing a fight to Billy Fox..and he was stopped by Bob Murphy as well...and of course by SRR.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:34 AM   #25
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

The answer is still Gene Tunney.
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Old 03-23-2011, 08:37 AM   #26
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Because going into 2004...

Vitali was made Lewis' #1 contender for obvious reasons, they just had one hell of a fight and a rematch was in demand to settle the score. He was #1 based off his performance against Lewis..going into the Johnson blow out.

Sanders upset #1 Wlad.

Former #2 Chris Byrd only fought once against Oquendo in a disappointing performance.

Ruiz had just been embarressed by Roy Jones and his lost his ranking to him.

Its not an exact science but I can see why the rankings ended up how they did.
Vitali was 1 with the WBC where Byrd/Ruiz couldn't be ranked, but in the grand scheme of things had beat 1 ranked contender in his career. Byrd had Vitali/Holyfield/Tua under his belt. Ruiz had Holyfield/Rahman under his belt, was coming off a loss but so was Vitali. Rankings are surely prescribed on wins and not 'losses where you looked good', otherwise Golota would be no1 when Lennox beat him
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:39 AM   #27
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Vitali was 1 with the WBC where Byrd/Ruiz couldn't be ranked, but in the grand scheme of things had beat 1 ranked contender in his career. Byrd had Vitali/Holyfield/Tua under his belt. Ruiz had Holyfield/Rahman under his belt, was coming off a loss but so was Vitali. Rankings are surely prescribed on wins and not 'losses where you looked good', otherwise Golota would be no1 when Lennox beat him
Happens all the time.

-Witherspoon and Carl Williams became solid top 5 regulars after performing strongly against Holmes.

-Vitali lost but he made a very strong case for being the #1 contender. I honestly don't recall anybody arguing at the time that Byrd and Ruiz were more deserving. Maybe bar Sanders, if Lewis did not retire and fought anybody other than Vitali...it would be outrageous and met with heavy criticism. Only haters and/or trolls on this site...7 years retrospect would argue otherwise.

-And the Bowe fights leap frogged Golota from "unranked" into the top 5. But with Tyson and Holyfield coming back, and Lewis all claiming the pieces of Foreman's title, him making a claim at #1 isn't happening.

Last edited by The Mongoose; 03-23-2011 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:40 AM   #28
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Vitali never was lineal.
Exactly.

Lewis TKO6 Vitali.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:04 AM   #29
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Happens all the time.

-Witherspoon and Carl Williams became solid top 5 regulars after performing strongly against Holmes.

-Vitali lost but he made a very strong case for being the #1 contender. I honestly don't recall anybody arguing at the time that Byrd and Ruiz were more deserving. Maybe bar Sanders, if Lewis did not retire and fought anybody other than Vitali...it would be outrageous and met with heavy criticism. Only haters and/or trolls on this site...7 years retrospect would argue otherwise.

-And the Bowe fights leap frogged Golota from "unranked" into the top 5. But with Tyson and Holyfield coming back, and Lewis all claiming the pieces of Foreman's title, him making a claim at #1 isn't happening.
Williams had a better case than Vitali in having beat the numero uno champ and he didn't get put in the top2, both of those 2 had good wins before and after Holmes too
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:16 AM   #30
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Default Re: Linear Heavyweight Champion With The Fewest Official Knockdowns

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Williams had a better case than Vitali in having beat the numero uno champ and he didn't get put in the top2, both of those 2 had good wins before and after Holmes too
Wins over Tillis and Ferguson, did not put the unranked Williams over Dokes and Weaver in 1985, an impressive loss to Holmes did. He didn't make top2 but you just have to consider all the circumstances, this was a much more chaotic time than 2003.

Spoon, Thomas, Page..had all made strong cases for being Holmes' next contender when Williams suddenly impressed against him too.

It would be like Vitali losing to Kirk Johnson after Lewis somehow, Ruiz beat Johnson, and suddenly Roy Jones makes a case by losing a controversial decision to Lewis. And Byrd makes a case by beating Sanders. But Vitali beats Ruiz.

Last edited by The Mongoose; 03-23-2011 at 10:42 AM.
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