Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-30-2007, 09:28 PM   #1
Russell
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,535
vCash: 118
Default Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

And Tunney was absolutely amazing at staying off the ropes. Truly.

All those backward miles must of made him into what he was in regards to that.

Anyone agree? Thoughts, opinions...?
Russell is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-30-2007, 09:54 PM   #2
robert ungurean
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: shadow boxing in phila.
Posts: 2,479
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Tunney was a true boxing master.
Very unapreciated champion.
robert ungurean is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 09:55 PM   #3
captherp
In training
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 13
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Dempsey should have been the champ after that fight. Just finished Ferdie Pacheco's book on his Greatest Rounds in boxing, and he has a lot of documentation about the time Tunney was on the mat (anywhere from 14 seconds to SEVENTEEN (according to The Ring Magazine's Nat Fleischer). He also noted that the referee (Barry) didn't start counting until Dempsey finally went to a neutral corner, but when Tunney later went on to knock Dempsey down, Barry immediately started counting while Tunney was hovering around behind him. Take a look at that fight again, and let me know what you think.

The impression I get from Pacheco's book (as well as people like Mills Lane, and others quoted on that fight) is that the referee was bought and paid for.

To answer your question, Tunney was good at movement. However, he should have lost that fight. I'm not sure what you mean about backward?

Tony
captherp is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 10:15 PM   #4
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,468
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by captherp
Dempsey should have been the champ after that fight. Just finished Ferdie Pacheco's book on his Greatest Rounds in boxing, and he has a lot of documentation about the time Tunney was on the mat (anywhere from 14 seconds to SEVENTEEN (according to The Ring Magazine's Nat Fleischer). He also noted that the referee (Barry) didn't start counting until Dempsey finally went to a neutral corner, but when Tunney later went on to knock Dempsey down, Barry immediately started counting while Tunney was hovering around behind him. Take a look at that fight again, and let me know what you think.

The impression I get from Pacheco's book (as well as people like Mills Lane, and others quoted on that fight) is that the referee was bought and paid for.
Opinions vary on this one, but for me Tunney always knew where he was. He looked alert. To quote the man himself, "nine of the ten seconds a fighter is on the canvas belong to him." And those are how the ref counted them, not anyone else. I heard Tyson say Dempsey may have had an advantage in the follow up - maybe.

As to the variance in the counts, i've heard two therories. One, Dempsey and his manager had made enemies and the ref was in Tunney's corner. Two, Dempsey had famously destroyed Willard by hovering and it stuck in the refs mind (and the mind of anyone else who saw it). He was very keen to get Demspey to a neutral corner.

Bad refereeing - but terminal to the match? Not in my opinion.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 10:21 PM   #5
Dempsey1238
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,015
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Dempsey was up so dang fast in round 8, The ref did not have time to get Tunney to a netrual Coner, Had Dempsey stay down. Perhaps the ref would have stop counting. Dempsey was also well known for standing over guys. The Willard and Firpo fights makes a good point in that regard.
Dempsey1238 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 11:44 PM   #6
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,116
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

I was taken by Dempsey's rabbit punching in that fight.


As to the referee "being bought and paid for," I disagree. Dempsey knew the rules ahead of time for that fight, that the fighter scoring the knockdown had to go to a neutral corner. He didn't, simple as that. Going by the rules, the referee correctly did not issue a count until he was in that corner. I'm not sure what there is to argue here.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 11:49 PM   #7
Russell
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 13,535
vCash: 118
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by captherp
To answer your question, Tunney was good at movement. However, he should have lost that fight. I'm not sure what you mean about backward?Tony
He used to run miles backwards.
Russell is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 08:11 AM   #8
captherp
In training
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 13
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
He used to run miles backwards.
That I didn't know. Thanks.

As to the rest, all I can say is that the referee didn't even look around to see where Tunney was before he started counting when Dempsey went down, which was a lot different than what happened when Tunney went down.
captherp is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 08:21 AM   #9
achillesthegreat
FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 18,266
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Tunney sure did have some good feet. He was a handful for Dempsey and I think he would be for many others like Marciano, Louis, Jeffries etc
achillesthegreat is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 08:46 AM   #10
Icemmann
Breakin it down.
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: In a Treehouse
Posts: 475
vCash: 75
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
I was taken by Dempsey's rabbit punching in that fight.


As to the referee "being bought and paid for," I disagree. Dempsey knew the rules ahead of time for that fight, that the fighter scoring the knockdown had to go to a neutral corner. He didn't, simple as that. Going by the rules, the referee correctly did not issue a count until he was in that corner. I'm not sure what there is to argue here.
If thats the case then the referee also incorrectly began counting when Dempsey was down without directing Tunney to a neutral corner.


Though I don't think it really had much effect on the outcome.
Icemmann is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 08:51 AM   #11
captherp
In training
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 13
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemmann
If thats the case then the referee also incorrectly began counting when Dempsey was down without directing Tunney to a neutral corner.


Though I don't think it really had much effect on the outcome.
Agreed. Hey Iceman, remember me? Good to see you.

Herp
captherp is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 09:33 AM   #12
captherp
In training
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 13
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by captherp
Agreed. Hey Iceman, remember me? Good to see you.

Herp
Lemme rephrase that. Agreed to the statement about the referee began counting; I can't say for sure to the second one, because I think if Tunney had gotten up at a TRUE nine, Dempsey, whose tactic was to immediately swarm his opponent, would have slapped him around like a rag doll, personally.
captherp is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 09:42 AM   #13
Icemmann
Breakin it down.
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: In a Treehouse
Posts: 475
vCash: 75
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by captherp
Lemme rephrase that. Agreed to the statement about the referee began counting; I can't say for sure to the second one, because I think if Tunney had gotten up at a TRUE nine, Dempsey, whose tactic was to immediately swarm his opponent, would have slapped him around like a rag doll, personally.
Been a while since I watched the fight but Tunney looked ready to get up by around what would have been 6 or 7. When the ref was pushing Dempsey into the corner he just stayed down to take a breather.

Being the mover he was I think he could have run around for another 10 seconds avoiding taking anything that would have resulted in him getting his head cleared.

Nothing is certain but that would be my guess.

Don't remember you unless you were the guy that used to post in the lounge when I first joined.
Icemmann is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 09:45 AM   #14
captherp
In training
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 13
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Lemme just say your avatar takes me back a few years....
captherp is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 11:54 AM   #15
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,116
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Just watched Tunney/Dempsey II...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icemmann
If thats the case then the referee also incorrectly began counting when Dempsey was down without directing Tunney to a neutral corner.


Though I don't think it really had much effect on the outcome.

..............No argument. But if that's the criteria one uses to conclude that a referee is in the bag, it's pretty dubious.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013