MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON

Bill Butcher · 11-21-2007, 06:27 AM

A suprise to some but not to others.

The great sugar ray robinson blows away bernard hopkins by votes of 26-9.
The 70s master carlos monzon edges his fiercest mythical match-up opponent the 80s king marvin hagler by the slimmest of margins... 29-28.

Now for the final, Monzon always found a way to win when defending his mwt title but could he find a way to beat the 30 yr old robinson who has not long stepped up to mwt.

The robinson who tko`d Lamotta vs Monzon at the height of his powers, who wins ?

You decide, you have 2 days.

McGrain · 11-21-2007, 06:52 AM

I'm very happy Monzon got by Hagler, didn't think he would manage it.

I think he would get beaten here though. I think Sugar could get round the corner on Monzon and outpoint him. The guy that stopped LaMotta in 13 is the height of the art for me.

redrooster · 11-21-2007, 07:58 AM

Robinson wins big time. TKO round 13.

Smith · 11-21-2007, 08:21 AM

.......

Damn, will I go against Monzon in favour of the best ever?

This is hard..........

....I think I have to agree with what McGrain has said, Robinson wins by decison, a close one at that but not disputed.

...Sorry Carlos, I went against you, youre still my favourite fighter, please forgive me

McGrain · 11-21-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boydsmith

...Sorry Carlos, I went against you, youre still my favourite fighter, please forgive me

Here's the thing; even the greatest of fighters have guys who would beat them, some of them out of sight.

Nick Balsamo · 11-21-2007, 09:15 AM

Harry Greb would rape that slow-mo Monzon.

redrooster · 11-21-2007, 09:24 AM

So would Roy junior

Stonehands89 · 11-21-2007, 09:29 AM

Monzon.

I am unconvinced that Hagler doesn't beat Monzon, and am disappointed that he didn't get the votes. I don't think that Monzon had the tools to beat Hagler. He did, however, have the tools to beat Robinson.

Robinson will not knock Monzon out but he will indeed have a hard time fending him off and dealing with sheer physical presence of the relentless Monzon. Monzon's physicality in the ring was ominous for any WW -even the greatest WW who ever lived. He was close to Maxim in terms of size and arguably stronger.

Robinson was less great as a MW -I would argue far less great. Basilio Lamotta, and Fullmer were physical fighters who took him to hell and back -but only Fullmer was a natural MW, and he was 5'8. Monzon is a hair under 6 feet.

I see Monzon pressing continuously behind hard straight shots to the body and head and wearing Robinson down increasing pressure round by round. Robinson would be forced on the defensive for the second half of the fight and although his conditioning was exellent, Monzon had a penchant for sapping it.

15 rounds is a long time for a WW who was not known for physical strength even at 147.

Monzon UD.

Stonehands89 · 11-21-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Balsamo

Harry Greb would rape that slow-mo Monzon.

I highly doubt that.

Stonehands89 · 11-21-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrooster

So would Roy junior

That's even more ludicrous.

enquirer · 11-21-2007, 10:00 AM

Carlos monzon was a big,strong,methodical,iron chinned,heavy handed middleweight with superb stamina...He had the ability to tie his man up inside to nullify their body work/medium range work and he was pretty elusive with his upper body,back foot moves and head movement. His long jab and right cross were methodical,heavy and thrown persistently over 15 rounds. In this sense he was like a pressure fighter in that the other man knew carlos would always be relentlessly firing in jabs ,multiple jabs and rights,and this carlos did with his great reach and ability to keep exchanges at long range,couple this with his iron chin and you see the task any middleweight faces...
Seeing as robinson was really only a welter and struggled with turpin,basilio,fullmer,la motta and such fighters who were awkward and put the pressure on him consistently i say monzon represents the BEST and biggest middle robinson could ever meet with that type of akward style and pressure,couple this with monzons reach and the fact that robinson is not going to stop monzon (as he did with turpin and fullmer.) and you have a fighter taylor made to beat robinson over 15....
The only hope for robinson is if somehow robinson can dance around monzon for fifteen rounds while nibbling up points and evading all of carlos' jabs and crosses,i find this unlikely and even then maybe carlos could handle this kind of speed,he always found a way to win the big fights....
Monzon UD 15....
I feel that monzon is clearly the best middleweight champion of all time by resume and head to head,and i feel this tournament is rightly his...

Smith · 11-21-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Here's the thing; even the greatest of fighters have guys who would beat them, some of them out of sight.

True....

I'm totally split on this one, ive now went back to Carlos winning. Ithink he has the intangibles to beat sugar. I'm sure of it.

Luigi1985 · 11-21-2007, 10:25 AM

SRR is horribly overrated above 147 lbs. Against a natural 160´er like Monzon, probably the greatest ever at that weight class, he wouldn´t have much chances IMO, Carlos would with his pysical style wear down SRR and TKO him late...

Monzon TKO 14 SRR

hdog · 11-21-2007, 07:36 PM

Two of my favorite fighters of all time. I just think Monzon is a bad stylistic match-up for Robinson. Monzon via close decision perhaps knocking down Robinson in the process.

Manassa · 11-21-2007, 08:29 PM

Remember that we're talking about a primed, youthful Monzon of around 1970. Harder punching, more active and a bit faster than that typical version most people envision, the one from '74-75.

View Poll Results: Who was the king of MWTs ?
Sugar Ray Robinson	20	46.51%
Carlos Monzon	23	53.49%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

11-21-2007, 06:27 AM	#1
Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Phoenix Marie`s ass, Fritzl Residence, Glasgow, Scotland. Posts: 14,253 vCash: 1000	MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON A suprise to some but not to others. The great sugar ray robinson blows away bernard hopkins by votes of 26-9. The 70s master carlos monzon edges his fiercest mythical match-up opponent the 80s king marvin hagler by the slimmest of margins... 29-28. Now for the final, Monzon always found a way to win when defending his mwt title but could he find a way to beat the 30 yr old robinson who has not long stepped up to mwt. The robinson who tko`d Lamotta vs Monzon at the height of his powers, who wins ? You decide, you have 2 days.
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11-21-2007, 06:52 AM	#2
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 34,759 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON I'm very happy Monzon got by Hagler, didn't think he would manage it. I think he would get beaten here though. I think Sugar could get round the corner on Monzon and outpoint him. The guy that stopped LaMotta in 13 is the height of the art for me.
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11-21-2007, 07:58 AM	#3
redrooster Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,762 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON Robinson wins big time. TKO round 13.
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11-21-2007, 08:21 AM	#4
Smith Monzon-like ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,985 vCash: 484	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON ....... Damn, will I go against Monzon in favour of the best ever? This is hard.......... ....I think I have to agree with what McGrain has said, Robinson wins by decison, a close one at that but not disputed. ...Sorry Carlos, I went against you, youre still my favourite fighter, please forgive me
Top

11-21-2007, 09:15 AM	#6
Nick Balsamo Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alma Beach Posts: 157 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON Harry Greb would rape that slow-mo Monzon.
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11-21-2007, 09:24 AM	#7
redrooster Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,762 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON So would Roy junior
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11-21-2007, 09:29 AM	#8
Stonehands89 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,149 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON Monzon. I am unconvinced that Hagler doesn't beat Monzon, and am disappointed that he didn't get the votes. I don't think that Monzon had the tools to beat Hagler. He did, however, have the tools to beat Robinson. Robinson will not knock Monzon out but he will indeed have a hard time fending him off and dealing with sheer physical presence of the relentless Monzon. Monzon's physicality in the ring was ominous for any WW -even the greatest WW who ever lived. He was close to Maxim in terms of size and arguably stronger. Robinson was less great as a MW -I would argue far less great. Basilio Lamotta, and Fullmer were physical fighters who took him to hell and back -but only Fullmer was a natural MW, and he was 5'8. Monzon is a hair under 6 feet. I see Monzon pressing continuously behind hard straight shots to the body and head and wearing Robinson down increasing pressure round by round. Robinson would be forced on the defensive for the second half of the fight and although his conditioning was exellent, Monzon had a penchant for sapping it. 15 rounds is a long time for a WW who was not known for physical strength even at 147. Monzon UD.
Top

11-21-2007, 10:00 AM	#11
enquirer Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,604 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON Carlos monzon was a big,strong,methodical,iron chinned,heavy handed middleweight with superb stamina...He had the ability to tie his man up inside to nullify their body work/medium range work and he was pretty elusive with his upper body,back foot moves and head movement. His long jab and right cross were methodical,heavy and thrown persistently over 15 rounds. In this sense he was like a pressure fighter in that the other man knew carlos would always be relentlessly firing in jabs ,multiple jabs and rights,and this carlos did with his great reach and ability to keep exchanges at long range,couple this with his iron chin and you see the task any middleweight faces... Seeing as robinson was really only a welter and struggled with turpin,basilio,fullmer,la motta and such fighters who were awkward and put the pressure on him consistently i say monzon represents the BEST and biggest middle robinson could ever meet with that type of akward style and pressure,couple this with monzons reach and the fact that robinson is not going to stop monzon (as he did with turpin and fullmer.) and you have a fighter taylor made to beat robinson over 15.... The only hope for robinson is if somehow robinson can dance around monzon for fifteen rounds while nibbling up points and evading all of carlos' jabs and crosses,i find this unlikely and even then maybe carlos could handle this kind of speed,he always found a way to win the big fights.... Monzon UD 15.... I feel that monzon is clearly the best middleweight champion of all time by resume and head to head,and i feel this tournament is rightly his...
Top

11-21-2007, 10:25 AM	#13
Luigi1985 Cane Corso ESB Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,318 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON SRR is horribly overrated above 147 lbs. Against a natural 160´er like Monzon, probably the greatest ever at that weight class, he wouldn´t have much chances IMO, Carlos would with his pysical style wear down SRR and TKO him late... Monzon TKO 14 SRR
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11-21-2007, 07:36 PM	#14
hdog Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 144 vCash: 1000	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON Two of my favorite fighters of all time. I just think Monzon is a bad stylistic match-up for Robinson. Monzon via close decision perhaps knocking down Robinson in the process.
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11-21-2007, 08:29 PM	#15
Manassa - ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ESB since '05 Posts: 3,883 vCash: 75	Re: MWT Tourney Final - ROBINSON v MONZON Remember that we're talking about a primed, youthful Monzon of around 1970. Harder punching, more active and a bit faster than that typical version most people envision, the one from '74-75.
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