which fighters were one win away from being the goat?

goat15 · 03-31-2011, 03:41 PM

do you ever look at a fighter's resume and think 'if only he had somehow got that win, he would have been the greatest'?

they don't even have to have been particularly close to winning the fight, but they do have to have had the fight (so not fighters who could have fought someone but didn't).

a few to get you thinking... what if ali had beaten holmes? what if duran had beaten hagler? what if moore had beaten marciano? if armstrong had beaten robinson somehow, he surely would have been the consensus greatest.

i'm not saying any of these guys would have been the greatest for sure had they won those fights (except maybe armstrong), but they surely would have had a real case, whereas i'm not sure they do in reality (except armstrong).

Bokaj · 03-31-2011, 03:46 PM

The Robinson-Armstrong pick is a good one. Would have been a tremendous boost for an already tremendous record.

If Robinson had gotten the win against Maxim is another one.

McGrain · 03-31-2011, 03:50 PM

Fitzsimmons-Jeffries
Charles-Marciano
Duran-Hagler
Langford-Johnson

Swarmer · 03-31-2011, 03:53 PM

if armstrong had gotten the decision he deserved i'd probably have to give him #1(in reference to garcia not robinson)

Tuaman · 03-31-2011, 03:55 PM

If Frazier had beaten Foreman and won the Ali rematches, he'd rank higher.

Bokaj · 03-31-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Fitzsimmons-Jeffries

A win over Johnson would probably have been even better.

lufcrazy · 03-31-2011, 03:56 PM

Duran hagler
Hearns hagler
Ali holmes
Holyfield lewis
Leonard noris
Louis marciano

Langford johnson

goat15 · 03-31-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

Fitzsimmons-Jeffries
Charles-Marciano
Duran-Hagler
Langford-Johnson

a few could have got a win over marciano - moore, charles and louis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swarmer

if armstrong had gotten the decision he deserved i'd probably have to give him #1(in reference to garcia not robinson)

i'm not sure an official verdict would have done much for him. if you feel he deserved the win (and many, dare i say most, do) isn't that enough?

Thread Stealer · 03-31-2011, 04:06 PM

The Robinson-Garcia was essentially a non-title bout though. Only the California MW title at stake, and not the championship distance.

heerko koois · 03-31-2011, 04:10 PM

Michael spinks-tyson....

easyLivin' · 03-31-2011, 04:13 PM

And what if Ali beats Holmes? Still no chance to be considered GOAT? What's your opinion?

TheGreatA · 03-31-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goat15

a few could have got a win over marciano - moore, charles and louis.

i'm not sure an official verdict would have done much for him. if you feel he deserved the win (and many, dare i say most, do) isn't that enough?

Not to mention Armstrong had already beaten Garcia.

goat15 · 03-31-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easyLivin'

And what if Ali beats Holmes? Still no chance to be considered GOAT? What's your opinion?

especially when you consider the state he was in, if ali had got the win against holmes he'd have to be in the goat debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

Not to mention Armstrong had already beaten Garcia.

indeed.

Boilermaker · 03-31-2011, 05:18 PM

No mention of George Foreman beating Muhammed Ali? I think this would have placed george close to no 1.

Joe Louis would be a standout if he had defeated schmelling. Although many, consider him a standout anyway.

Jeffries would also be a good chance if he beat Johnson.

Fitzsimmons over Jeffries II might give him a bit of a shot, but i think it would mainly result in Jeffries colours being lowered. (and of course i already make him no1 p4p but this would seal it for the mainstream i think).

Same with Sullivan over Corbett.

Langford over Johnson would change his ranking substantially hed become p4p no 1 if he isnt already there.

Sonny liston over Cassius clay would give him a good shot at GOAT.

Mike Tyson over Lennox Lewis would have Tyson in calculations for most people.

Vitali Klitchsko over Lennox Lewis would definitely raise his stock and head to head, i think he would ahve to be in calculations if he pulled it off.

Larry Holmes over Mike Tyson would really improve his chances.

Gene Tunney over Harry Greb would be massive. It takes away Rocky Marciano's uniqueness.

I think that is about it for the heavyweights. REalisticallly, i think that Foreman and Jeffries are the best chances of making strong cases for a consensus no 1 ranking, but even with those wins, it is doubtful that either reaches above Joe Louis. In fact, ironically, if Foreman were to take Ali, it would probably do more for Joe Louis ranking as Joe would become a consensus greatest ever.

goat15 · 03-31-2011, 05:27 PM

boilermaker, are you talking about the greatest heavyweights or the greatest pound for pound?

03-31-2011, 03:41 PM	#1
goat15 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,477 vCash: 500	which fighters were one win away from being the goat? do you ever look at a fighter's resume and think 'if only he had somehow got that win, he would have been the greatest'? they don't even have to have been particularly close to winning the fight, but they do have to have had the fight (so not fighters who could have fought someone but didn't). a few to get you thinking... what if ali had beaten holmes? what if duran had beaten hagler? what if moore had beaten marciano? if armstrong had beaten robinson somehow, he surely would have been the consensus greatest. i'm not saying any of these guys would have been the greatest for sure had they won those fights (except maybe armstrong), but they surely would have had a real case, whereas i'm not sure they do in reality (except armstrong).
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03-31-2011, 03:46 PM	#2
Bokaj Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12,305 vCash: 1000	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? The Robinson-Armstrong pick is a good one. Would have been a tremendous boost for an already tremendous record. If Robinson had gotten the win against Maxim is another one.
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03-31-2011, 03:50 PM	#3
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,251 vCash: 1000	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? Fitzsimmons-Jeffries Charles-Marciano Duran-Hagler Langford-Johnson
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03-31-2011, 03:53 PM	#4
Swarmer Patrick East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: You know you done fucked up right? You know that right? Posts: 11,901 vCash: 1035	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? if armstrong had gotten the decision he deserved i'd probably have to give him #1(in reference to garcia not robinson)
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03-31-2011, 03:55 PM	#5
Tuaman Return Of The Terminator ESB Jr Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 166 vCash: 500	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? If Frazier had beaten Foreman and won the Ali rematches, he'd rank higher.
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03-31-2011, 03:56 PM	#7
lufcrazy requiescat in pace East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England, Up North Posts: 22,710 vCash: 330	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? Duran hagler Hearns hagler Ali holmes Holyfield lewis Leonard noris Louis marciano Langford johnson
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03-31-2011, 04:06 PM	#9
Thread Stealer P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17,103 vCash: 1000	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? The Robinson-Garcia was essentially a non-title bout though. Only the California MW title at stake, and not the championship distance.
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03-31-2011, 04:10 PM	#10
heerko koois Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: veenwouden-netherlands Posts: 7,222 vCash: 75	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? Michael spinks-tyson....
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03-31-2011, 04:13 PM	#11
easyLivin' Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 112 vCash: 75	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? And what if Ali beats Holmes? Still no chance to be considered GOAT? What's your opinion?
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03-31-2011, 05:18 PM	#14
Boilermaker Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 3,771 vCash: 685	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? No mention of George Foreman beating Muhammed Ali? I think this would have placed george close to no 1. Joe Louis would be a standout if he had defeated schmelling. Although many, consider him a standout anyway. Jeffries would also be a good chance if he beat Johnson. Fitzsimmons over Jeffries II might give him a bit of a shot, but i think it would mainly result in Jeffries colours being lowered. (and of course i already make him no1 p4p but this would seal it for the mainstream i think). Same with Sullivan over Corbett. Langford over Johnson would change his ranking substantially hed become p4p no 1 if he isnt already there. Sonny liston over Cassius clay would give him a good shot at GOAT. Mike Tyson over Lennox Lewis would have Tyson in calculations for most people. Vitali Klitchsko over Lennox Lewis would definitely raise his stock and head to head, i think he would ahve to be in calculations if he pulled it off. Larry Holmes over Mike Tyson would really improve his chances. Gene Tunney over Harry Greb would be massive. It takes away Rocky Marciano's uniqueness. I think that is about it for the heavyweights. REalisticallly, i think that Foreman and Jeffries are the best chances of making strong cases for a consensus no 1 ranking, but even with those wins, it is doubtful that either reaches above Joe Louis. In fact, ironically, if Foreman were to take Ali, it would probably do more for Joe Louis ranking as Joe would become a consensus greatest ever.
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03-31-2011, 05:27 PM	#15
goat15 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,477 vCash: 500	Re: which fighters were one win away from being the goat? boilermaker, are you talking about the greatest heavyweights or the greatest pound for pound?
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