Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-01-2011, 11:53 AM   #16
TheGreatA
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,098
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Sharkey looks great, though he seems a little overconfident of his speed and reflexes, using that upperbody movement for his defense. Small wonder he thought Ali was the second coming of... well, himself. Great footage.
I think it was to show his disdain for Maloney. He had surpassed Maloney throughout their rivalry and toyed with him in this bout. Usually he was more cautious, sometimes to a fault.
TheGreatA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-01-2011, 12:23 PM   #17
eslubin
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California
Posts: 279
vCash: 500
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

LOL! I don't see the sense in judging this great fighter on 2 minutes of old footage taken out of context. I could be wrong but it's clear to me McVey underestimated an unheralded opponent, and Jim Johnson fought the fight of his life. And it turned out to be a draw. Three months later McVey ko'ed him and won all the rest of their known meetings, 4 or 5 fights. They fought each other a combine what 100+ rounds? McVey is great, Gilbert Odd rated him #7 all time in the 70s or so and I trust his view more than a few butchered minutes of a dusty old film reel

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R0ro_Rq26I[/ame]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
eslubin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 02:18 PM   #18
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug.ie View Post
very impressive footage uploaded recently by 'fightfilmguys'....

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
I have to say McVey does not exhibit anywhere near the skill we saw from
Langford against Jeannette, imo.
mcvey is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 02:23 PM   #19
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,381
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Dempsey looking savage in a sparring session, dusting off his poor opponent with a dynamite right hand:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

You earned your money if you sparred with Jack.
Larry Gains ,who worked with him,when Gains was coming up said ,if a sparring partner was told he would not be used that day,"the relief on his face was something to see ".
mcvey is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 02:45 PM   #20
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,091
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
You earned your money if you sparred with Jack.
Larry Gains ,who worked with him,when Gains was coming up said ,if a sparring partner was told he would not be used that day,"the relief on his face was something to see ".
Dempsey certainly earned his money when he sparred with Greb
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 02:52 PM   #21
Cael
Claudia Cardinale
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballz Deep
Posts: 1,694
vCash: 811
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Dempsey looking savage in a sparring session, dusting off his poor opponent with a dynamite right hand:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

holy cow...what a right hand, and they say that the left hook was his most lethal weapon.
Cael is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 02:57 PM   #22
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,091
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Lots of guys saying how bad McVey looks. OK. But maybe it's worth a second look? However bad you think he looks he hands with Langford and Jeanette, how does he do that? There are some interesting wee things in that film if you want to look for them, I think.
McGrain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 03:18 PM   #23
Bukkake
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,114
vCash: 500
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eslubin View Post
LOL! I don't see the sense in judging this great fighter on 2 minutes of old footage taken out of context. I could be wrong but it's clear to me McVey underestimated an unheralded opponent, and Jim Johnson fought the fight of his life. And it turned out to be a draw. Three months later McVey ko'ed him and won all the rest of their known meetings, 4 or 5 fights. They fought each other a combine what 100+ rounds? McVey is great, Gilbert Odd rated him #7 all time in the 70s or so and I trust his view more than a few butchered minutes of a dusty old film reel
I've never heard, that Odd thought this highly of McVey... but if that's true, I'd like to see the rest of his top-10?
Bukkake is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 03:20 PM   #24
Cael
Claudia Cardinale
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ballz Deep
Posts: 1,694
vCash: 811
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Lots of guys saying how bad McVey looks. OK. But maybe it's worth a second look? However bad you think he looks he hands with Langford and Jeanette, how does he do that? There are some interesting wee things in that film if you want to look for them, I think.


McVey DOES look horrible, there's nothing to deny about it
Jeanette doesn't look great either....that comical thrusting jab is something that would work only in the days of boxing infancy.

But we shouldn't get carried away by a video, after all the sloppy sluggish and wild Dempsey KTFO the all mighty impressive Jack Sharkey.
Cael is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 06:33 PM   #25
klompton
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,834
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

McVey was better than this footage indicates. This is the problem with judging a fighter on one snippet of film.
klompton is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 06:39 PM   #26
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,177
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Lots of guys saying how bad McVey looks. OK. But maybe it's worth a second look? However bad you think he looks he hands with Langford and Jeanette, how does he do that? There are some interesting wee things in that film if you want to look for them, I think.
Jeanette looks like shit, too.

I think some observers want to see skills that objectively are not exhibited. It looks like a glorified tough man competition.

And by the way, Dempsey looks old and shitty, too.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 06:55 PM   #27
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,961
vCash: 685
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hulkbash View Post
Might seem a silly question but why did some of the old school fighters hold their left arm so low and outstreched ? surely there is less to put behind the jab that way ?
David Haye and Vitali (making it 2 of the top 3) fighters in the world at the moment do it.

I think the that if you hold your left low you can put much more power into it.

Also, it seems to make it easier to counterpunch when you use your upper body to sway away from a punch. In the older days, some held it low to protect their body which was more important with the smaller gloves, but i think that i high guard does the same thing and is better in this regard.

I also think that when there was more clinching allowed the low guard was more effective, because if you foughtin a high guard it was easier for the opponent to tie you up under the rules.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 07:01 PM   #28
Boilermaker
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,961
vCash: 685
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Jeanette looks like shit, too.

I think some observers want to see skills that objectively are not exhibited. It looks like a glorified tough man competition.

And by the way, Dempsey looks old and shitty, too.
It was just a throw away sparring session. Plenty of modern greats look just as bad in these things because they mean nothing. And by the way, i did think Dempsey's last right hand looked pretty impressive despite it being a nothing opponent.

One thing i did notice about Dempsey particularly in this fight (and have in others before) is that he stands very square on. I think that while this helps him land effectively with both hands, it makes him far easier to hit. I think this is why he was caught cleanly a fair few times in his career (such as Firpo, and possibly even Flynn, who knows). But i think this is also why Tunney was able to land so willingly. Despite his uncanny defensive skills and reactions, i think that the square stance means he would be caught reasobably often by many of the greats.
Boilermaker is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 08:15 PM   #29
eslubin
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: California
Posts: 279
vCash: 500
Default Re: Sam McVea vs Battling Jim Johnson 1910 (Speed Corrected)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bukkake View Post
I've never heard, that Odd thought this highly of McVey... but if that's true, I'd like to see the rest of his top-10?
My mistake it was Broadway Charley Rose who rated McVey #7. And he had Langford on top as of 1968. He saw them all from the turn of the century into the mid-70s. I can't pretend someone's perception on a couple mins of clips compares to this haha! I can take 2 mins of Sugar Ray also and make him look like like a trial horse too. Perspective matters

As for people knocking Jeannette. Well no one knows how Lennox Lewis and Holyfield would look if they fought 11 times either. The wares you bring in to a single shot against a fighter you'll never meet or see again would change if you meet that man a dozen times in hundreds of rounds.

Think about it. That makes Langford-Jeannette doubly significant, because its the most complete version of two boxers who competed for MONEY in the frame of hundreds of rounds.

The basic stuff would just stop working at some point, like two magicians trying to surprise each other. Once again, perspective is reality. But if we want to "feel" old timers suck, thats your business! lol seems like a bleakly inaccurate outlook on the past to me. These men got on top in their era and were feared and respected for a reason. Game recognize game. non-game just can't/won't !




Charley Rose, 1968
  1. Sam Langford
  2. Jack Johnson
  3. Jack Dempsey
  4. Joe Louis
  5. Jim Jeffries
  6. Gene Tunney
  7. Sam McVey
  8. Rocky Marciano
  9. Jim Corbett
  10. Max Baer
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R0ro_Rq26I[/ame]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
eslubin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013