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Old 04-10-2011, 03:13 PM   #46
Rob_Floyd
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

Very surprised that Gegard didn't finish him, but he very, very clearly won. Jardine literally did nothing with his takedowns.

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Old 04-10-2011, 03:28 PM   #47
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

does anybody else feel Mousasi is way to timid? i feel there were multiple times in that fight he could have finished Jardine but chose to just plod towards him instead. he also showed 0 urgency or killer instinct in his fight with Mo.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:31 PM   #48
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd View Post
Very surprised that Gegard didn't finish him, but he very, very clearly won. Jardine literally did nothing with his takedowns.

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It was the point deduction. Jardine had 4 takedowns in the 1st round then stupid ass ref took a point away so it was a 10-8 round for jardine. Mousasi needed a knockout or submission.
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:39 PM   #49
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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Originally Posted by Delroc View Post
does anybody else feel Mousasi is way to timid? i feel there were multiple times in that fight he could have finished Jardine but chose to just plod towards him instead. he also showed 0 urgency or killer instinct in his fight with Mo.
My thoughts too. He only has himself to blame for not closing the show
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Old 04-10-2011, 03:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

The first round should have been 9-9. Jardine did absolutely nothing with his takedowns. I think he had one strike on the ground in that round. Keith got outstruck 48 to 10 in round one.
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Old 04-10-2011, 04:12 PM   #51
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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Wow.

Mousasi-Kyle was going to be a slugfest with a probable KO ending either way.

Mousasi-Jardine will be a slugfest with an almost certain KO ending either way.
Gegard woulda tapped Mike IMO.
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:42 PM   #52
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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Originally Posted by Rob_Floyd View Post
The first round should have been 9-9. Jardine did absolutely nothing with his takedowns. I think he had one strike on the ground in that round. Keith got outstruck 48 to 10 in round one.

Outstruck him on the ground and on the feet, more submission attempts, far more damage. Jardine was running away even before the first round ended. MMA has now turned into the "Ultimate Wrestling Championship"
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:46 PM   #53
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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Outstruck him on the ground and on the feet, more submission attempts, far more damage. Jardine was running away even before the first round ended. MMA has now turned into the "Ultimate Wrestling Championship"
Diaz tko 1
Melendez tko 1
Aoki sub 1

Spot on again Morono
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Old 04-10-2011, 05:55 PM   #54
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

I knew the score was going to be a draw. It sucks, but that what happens when you give away the first round, and give a point as well. Like I have said a million times, the 10 point must system is just retarded in MMA.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

The way the sport is going, it shouldn't be called Mixed Martial Arts..

It should be called 10 point Wrestling Arts.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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The way the sport is going, it shouldn't be called Mixed Martial Arts..

It should be called 10 point Wrestling Arts.
On the flip side, you can't fault wrestlers for having such a dominant base. It takes skill to take someone down and hold them, and fighters need to prepare to stuff takedowns and get back to their feet just as much as they need to train everything else. However, In the case of this fight... Jardine did absolutely nothing on top and couldn't even hold top position.

I am a wrestler myself, but I hate when people lay and pray.
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:00 PM   #57
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

I understand takedown is an important part of the game but if you can't do nothing with your takedown it shoudn't even count....
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:38 PM   #58
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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I understand takedown is an important part of the game but if you can't do nothing with your takedown it shoudn't even count....
Getting schooled from left to right for the whole fight any any other sport would have been a clear loss.

Its sad that MMA is now "10 point Wrestling Arts".
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:18 PM   #59
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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Originally Posted by WiDDoW_MaKeR View Post
On the flip side, you can't fault wrestlers for having such a dominant base. It takes skill to take someone down and hold them, and fighters need to prepare to stuff takedowns and get back to their feet just as much as they need to train everything else. However, In the case of this fight... Jardine did absolutely nothing on top and couldn't even hold top position.

I am a wrestler myself, but I hate when people lay and pray.
Agreed. But when it becomes clear that if it were a real fight, and the wrestler wouldn't even be able to control a guy on the ground and would eventually get knocked out, it just means we aren't watching a fight anymore.

I think if anything, we have seen that you can use a wrestlers takedown ability against him, forcing him to take you down and expend energy, where you can easily buck him off and force it back to standup is the anti-thesis to the wrestling base.

There is no doubt that Mousasi beat the shit out of Jardine, he won the fight easily, but lost the match.

Even the foul, the upkick to the head foul is an absolute travesty of a foul. If you cant land that shot legitimately, a shot that can seriously **** a wrestler up, then perhaps a wrestler should be severely penalized for getting a takedown and not inflicting damaqe.

Watching wrestlers in dominant position use their knees as downed opponents really makes them look like, well pussies. Not all, but we see it every now and then. Using it as some sort of defense is just a bitch move.
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Old 04-10-2011, 08:56 PM   #60
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Default Re: Mousasi vs. Jardine

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Agreed. But when it becomes clear that if it were a real fight, and the wrestler wouldn't even be able to control a guy on the ground and would eventually get knocked out, it just means we aren't watching a fight anymore.

I think if anything, we have seen that you can use a wrestlers takedown ability against him, forcing him to take you down and expend energy, where you can easily buck him off and force it back to standup is the anti-thesis to the wrestling base.

There is no doubt that Mousasi beat the shit out of Jardine, he won the fight easily, but lost the match.

Even the foul, the upkick to the head foul is an absolute travesty of a foul. If you cant land that shot legitimately, a shot that can seriously **** a wrestler up, then perhaps a wrestler should be severely penalized for getting a takedown and not inflicting damaqe.

Watching wrestlers in dominant position use their knees as downed opponents really makes them look like, well pussies. Not all, but we see it every now and then. Using it as some sort of defense is just a bitch move.
Well... Jardine isn't exactly an amazing wrestler. I agree... if you don't advance while on top, or control your opponent while on top, then you shouldn't get much credit for the takedown.... unless it's a great slam or something.

I really don't see wrestler using their knees to stay down too often. It's not a good position to be in anyways. I saw Diaz doing it last night though. Sitting on his hands and knees while moving his head back and forth.

However, MMA is NOT geared toward the wrestler as people like to pretend. First of all... the gloves make it much more difficult to grapple, your grip isn't anything close to what it normally is. Not only that, but it protects the strikers hands, as they could never unload with the kind of shots that they do repeatedly without that protection.

Second, they stand fighters up for lack of ground work, however, they don't put fighters down for lack of stand up action. In a "real fight" a wrestler could hold you down all day if he wanted.... and headbutt your face into mush. Which leads us to....

Third, they took out headbutts and knees to the head while down, and that hurts a wrestler ten times more than it helps him. It's very easy to control a downed opponent while you knee them... however it's once in a blue moon that a stand up fighter is going to catch a wrestler with a knee coming in. Normally that knee would catch them BEFORE they hit their knees anyways. A good takedown shouldn't involve being on your knees very long. Just pop down on one knee then pop back up and drive through for the finish. If you are going to stop that with a knee, it would be just as the wrestler is driving down toward his knee, but before he hits it. A good wrestler shouldn't hit his knee until he is already in on the legs anyways. Headbutts are an entire different issue. We saw what Mark Coleman did with headbutts and they quickly ripped that out of the sport. Do you realize how big of a blow that is? If we are talking about it being a "real fight".

If anything... MMA is geared toward the striker. The gloves, and the rules. It's just that wrestling is a much more dominant base. It's just about the ONLY style where you can have a fighter that knows nothing but it... and still be able to win. It's also the only style that allows you to control where the fight takes place. If the other guy is more dangerous on their feet than you... take them down... if you are better standing up than them... maybe they are a submission artist... you can use your wrestling to keep the fight standing up.

All together... we seem to agree though. Nobody ENJOYS watching a fight where one guy is just laying on the other. I LOVE a good grappling match, where fighters are using G&P and fighters are advancing position, going for submissions, ect.... That is very enteraining to me. However, I do hate it when a fighter just takes a fighter down, throws no punches, doesn't try to advance, and doesn't go for any submissions. That's simply not fighting, and you shouldn't get credit for it. Although, it's tough to give his opponent credit if he is doing nothing but laying on his back, can't prevent the takedown to save his life, and can't stay busy enough off the bottom to escape, or attempt a submission.


BTW... the upkick to the head isn't a great strategy against a wrestler anyways. It isn't often that a good dominant wrestler is going to be in the position to be upkicked in the face (while still on his knees)... that simply means that he is out of position anyways... and doing so because he KNOWS that he can't be upkicked in the face. Remember, they are allowed to upkick as soon as the opponent leaves his knees... which is usually when he is open for it anyways, posturing up on his toes, trying to stack you up and rain down on you. If you could kick/knee a downed opponent... that is once again going to benifit the wrestler because he can knee his opponent as he controls him from the top, and he can stand up from dominant position and kick his downed opponent. Also, wrestler would be able to utilize knees from the front headlock position. No good wrestler should be sitting on his knees in front of an opponent on their feet anyways. If you can't stop a takedown from a wrestler hanging out on his knees than there is no hope. Like I said earlier... the best takedown artists and the proper way to finish a takedown is to drive with your feet. Unless it's a shoestring single, which you don't see very often.
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