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Old 11-21-2007, 10:45 PM   #1
rodney
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Default Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Which fight Toronto (I) or Vancouver (II) was the better fight for George Chuvalo.
Better fight meaning a better performance for George Chuvalo.
Toronto was before Ali"s 3 yr. layoff, and Vancouver was after.
Can anyone comment on both fights.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

I was certainly surprised when I saw their first fight. I'd only seen a 60s Ali against Cooper, Terrell, Williams and Liston (1 and 2), so it was a revelation to see just how well a boxer could perform against Ali. While it was so one sided points-wise that I didn't bother keeping a scorecard, Chuvalo connected far more than I thought possible for a boxer of his ability. Whenever someone says that Ali would dance all night against an ATG, you know they probably haven't seen this fight.

Of course, some say Ali let Chuvalo hit him, in order to prove a point. This is overlooking the fact that Chuvalo was one of the most effective bodypunchers of his day, and did horrible things to Ali's body. No-one takes those kinds of shots if they don't have to.

The background behind the fight is interesting. Chuvalo got right inside Ali's head, much as Bonavena did, and I think it hurt Ali's performance. While Bonavena mocked Ali's lack of manhood, Chuvalo mocked Ali's inability to make him feel uncomfortable; having been dubbed "the washerwoman" before the fight was made, Chuvalo dressed as a washerwoman and challenged Ali in person. It's one of the few occasions where Ali was totally stumped!

I haven't seen the second fight, but according to Chuvalo the 1972 Ali was a much easier opponent (although still in a different league). It'd be interesting to see, because I haven't seen any of Chuvalo's later fights.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

well i've seen a well known clip from the first fight when Ali lets Chuvalo hit him about 10 times in the ribs and he's telling him to hit harder. So Ali liked to prove a point by taking unnecessary punishment - that's his big ego. Anyway Jim Brown will tell u on commentary about Ali's training leading up to the fight. He was missing sessions etc and came in at his heaviest ever weight for a fight.
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Old 11-22-2007, 08:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove
well i've seen a well known clip from the first fight when Ali lets Chuvalo hit him about 10 times in the ribs and he's telling him to hit harder. So Ali liked to prove a point by taking unnecessary punishment - that's his big ego.
Ali shook his head when Frazier hit him with some monster hooks- does that mean he wasn't hurt? NO-ONE, not even the Boxing Messiah, takes body punches if they can possibly avoid it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove
Anyway Jim Brown will tell u on commentary about Ali's training leading up to the fight. He was missing sessions etc and came in at his heaviest ever weight for a fight.
That was pretty re****ed, considering how good a boxer Chuvalo was.
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

The first Chuvalo fight is very telling of Mr. Ali indeed.

Last edited by Asterion; 10-01-2006 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove
well i've seen a well known clip from the first fight when Ali lets Chuvalo hit him about 10 times in the ribs and he's telling him to hit harder. So Ali liked to prove a point by taking unnecessary punishment - that's his big ego. Anyway Jim Brown will tell u on commentary about Ali's training leading up to the fight. He was missing sessions etc and came in at his heaviest ever weight for a fight.




You believe everything he said/ say, right? "The Kurgan" is completely right here, some groupies who say that Ali would dance circles around most ATGīs probably didnīt see the 1st Chuvalo- fight...
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove
well i've seen a well known clip from the first fight when Ali lets Chuvalo hit him about 10 times in the ribs and he's telling him to hit harder. So Ali liked to prove a point by taking unnecessary punishment - that's his big ego. Anyway Jim Brown will tell u on commentary about Ali's training leading up to the fight. He was missing sessions etc and came in at his heaviest ever weight for a fight.
Chuvalo said he took that fight on 3 weeks notice,so he was'nt in the best of shape either.
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeezzard
Chuvalo said he took that fight on 3 weeks notice,so he was'nt in the best of shape either.

IMO you just waste your time, if you wanna discuss seriously with the biggest nut hugger here on ESB, even if you back up your arguments with facts/ sources he doesnīt believe it...
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Old 11-22-2007, 09:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
IMO you just waste your time, if you wanna discuss seriously with the biggest nut hugger here on ESB, even if you back up your arguments with facts/ sources he doesnīt believe it...
Thats O.K. Lou,just don't use "I was'nt in shape" excuse.
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:02 AM   #10
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeezzard
Thats O.K. Lou,just don't use "I was'nt in shape" excuse.


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Old 11-22-2007, 12:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney
Which fight Toronto (I) or Vancouver (II) was the better fight for George Chuvalo.
Better fight meaning a better performance for George Chuvalo.
Toronto was before Ali"s 3 yr. layoff, and Vancouver was after.
Can anyone comment on both fights.
I have both fights at home.

To be honest, chuvalo was well beaten in both fights but he had more success in the 2nd fight as he was able to trap Ali on the ropes more often & land some hard blows.

The 60s version of Ali in the 1st fight was to fleet footed to be caught for any length of time although like any fighter, Ali still took a few but I think he only lost 1 or 2 rds max in the 1st fight.

Ali looked to be hurting chuvalo with a little more power in their 2nd fight than in the 1st fight but he was WAY faster & connected on a lot more punches in the 1st fight.

This wasnt Ali`s best performance of the 60s but it was 1 of his best performances in the 70s & you can still see how much hand & mainly footspeed was lost because of those 3/4 years off.
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Old 11-22-2007, 01:38 PM   #12
groove
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

haha Luigi you ****. You can watch it for yourself on Muhammad Ali's greatest fights. I had the video. I didn't say it- it's their on film. Proof not the bollox like you talk.
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Old 11-22-2007, 03:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher
I have both fights at home.

To be honest, chuvalo was well beaten in both fights but he had more success in the 2nd fight as he was able to trap Ali on the ropes more often & land some hard blows.

The 60s version of Ali in the 1st fight was to fleet footed to be caught for any length of time although like any fighter, Ali still took a few but I think he only lost 1 or 2 rds max in the 1st fight.

Ali looked to be hurting chuvalo with a little more power in their 2nd fight than in the 1st fight but he was WAY faster & connected on a lot more punches in the 1st fight.

This wasnt Ali`s best performance of the 60s but it was 1 of his best performances in the 70s & you can still see how much hand & mainly footspeed was lost because of those 3/4 years off.


Thanks
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Old 11-22-2007, 05:33 PM   #14
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Quote:
Originally Posted by groove
haha Luigi you ****. You can watch it for yourself on Muhammad Ali's greatest fights. I had the video. I didn't say it- it's their on film. Proof not the bollox like you talk.

Cīmon little sister of C.M. Clay II, nobody here on ESB takes you serious, especially when it comes to Ali (in non Ali- threads you anyhow never write something), youīre so biased, itīs unbelievable...
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Old 11-22-2007, 05:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Chuvalo vs. Ali (I & II)

Chuvalo fought out of his skin in both fights, and did have his moments in each of their fights. Ali did ship some serious punishment to the ribs, but looked really good in the first fight, against a fighter who was going to give a lot of great heavyweights a tough evening on that night.

The second fight was actually pretty competitive over the first few rounds, but Ali took over late, and had George looking a little shaky in the later rounds.

Both of the fights were pretty good, and quite a bit of fun to watch.
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