the scoring system.

blacklikesunday · 04-13-2011, 08:56 AM

i keep reading that the current way of scoring fights is unpopular with most fans, so how should it be scored?

i was just reading an old article with doc hamilton who thinks that bringing half points into the equation would really help.
as i said, this is old news so i don't know if it was ever tried or not???
would it just be the same old problems but with added half points?
would we still end up with stupid results in fights from time to time?

i know its a completely different sport but would there be any merit in something like they have in olympic boxing? don't they get awarded a point when they land a clean punch?[although from what i've seen they often don't reward the fighters when they ARE hitting cleanly.]

a certain number of points for takedowns, another number for kicks, etc?
is there any scoring system that could eliminate these stupid results where everyone but the judges knows who really won?

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scurlaruntings · 04-13-2011, 04:09 PM

The scoring is hardly the issue. The fights suck. Plain and simple. Greg Jackson syndrome is rampant in MMA.

Primate · 04-13-2011, 06:43 PM

The problem is the 10 point must system does not work in the three round fight. Rampage Machida is a perfect example. Rampage won the first two rounds, barely. He was moving forward more, he connected more, and he controlled the clinch against the cage more. But they were not clear rounds, no significant damage was done, nobody made any submission attempts and from memory there were no takedowns or ground control. Given what they had to work with, Rampage was rightfully given both rounds.
However, the 3 round was very clearly and dominantly Machida. Wasn't quite enough to give him a 10-8, but he clearly won the round. Rampage ends up getting the decision, because there's not enough leeway in the 10 point must system.

IMO, they should either be more willing in handing out 10-8 and even 10-7 or 10-6 rounds, or they should start scoring close rounds with a 10-10 or a 9-9.

Two recent examples of 10-8 rounds are round 1 of Edgar-Maynard II and round 2 of Fedor-Silva. Edgar-Maynard ended up in a draw (and rightfully so, the fight was a draw if I ever saw one), but that first round could've very easily been scored a 10-7, I think the scoring guidelines even state something like 'clear dominance with one fighter being close to finished multiple times' (or something). Same with Fedor-Silva, Fedor was totally and utterly and without question dominated in that round. It would have sucked for Silva to come out for a very close third round and have that fight scored a draw.

Anyways, for the most part, the judging in MMA sucks, you've got guys like Cecil Peoples and Tony Weeks who aren't held accountable for their actions at all, just look at the Phan-Garcia fight, which was totally ridiculous. Another reason is the 10 point must system just does no work for MMA, there are too many grey areas and no room to move in a three or even a 5 round fight.

I liked someone from Sherdogs idea about awarding percentages of each round.
Like Rampage-Machida would be scored, round 1: 55% Rampage, 45% Machida, round 2: 60% Rampage, 40% Machida, and round 3 25% Rampage, 75% Machida, so you'd get a score of like 160-140 for Machida. It more accurately reflects the % of control or dominance a fighter has in a given round. I quite liked that idea, better than the half points.

It still won't stop incompetent judges, though.

DyserthSpartan · 04-13-2011, 07:42 PM

20 point must scoring system, like the WBU use to use

blacklikesunday · 04-13-2011, 10:27 PM

are there any judges who are ex-fighters at all?
do they watch the fights on monitors these days?

Will Cooling · 04-13-2011, 10:43 PM

The scoring system should be this:

1) Have judges at ringside

2) Give them a pencil and a piece of paper

3) At the end of each fight have them use the pencil to write on the paper who they thought won

Once you add numbers or round by round scoring you are confusing the issue at hand and setting yourself up for the situation where the result the scoring system gives you is not the same as your overall view of the fight.

achillesthegreat · 04-14-2011, 02:34 AM

MMA has less rounds and more things to score than boxing but unfortunately it is easier to stifle the fight for longer. I would say half points are the way. It would leave the rounds open to MUCH more interpretation and fighters would look to finish because they won't know what the score is.

In that case I'd score the first round of Jardine-Mousasi 10-8.5.

timmyjames · 04-14-2011, 03:19 AM

i know pride judged the fight, not the round...i know they also had important aspects of the fight to be judged (strikes, TDs, TDD, damage, etc.) but of all the parts of a fight that carried the most weight was which fighter tried to finish the fight more. I'm not sure if this is part of the current UFC model, but it could possible have an effect on the whole rashid lay and pray garbage.

but yeah, the 10 point must thing in these 3 round fights is just no good

Ai-edy2007 · 04-14-2011, 07:57 PM

should make it pride rules in the cage that would be sick!!!

Windigo · 04-19-2011, 07:03 PM

Bring back yellow cards.

rusty nails · 04-19-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primate

I liked someone from Sherdogs idea about awarding percentages of each round.
Like Rampage-Machida would be scored, round 1: 55% Rampage, 45% Machida, round 2: 60% Rampage, 40% Machida, and round 3 25% Rampage, 75% Machida, so you'd get a score of like 160-140 for Machida. It more accurately reflects the % of control or dominance a fighter has in a given round. I quite liked that idea, better than the half points.

It still won't stop incompetent judges, though.

thats interesting.
i also think the rounds are too short at 5 minutes each.
It should be 2 eights and a ten IMO

Ai-edy2007 · 04-20-2011, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windigo

Bring back yellow cards.

yea bro i totally agree man lay and pray sucks.

achillesthegreat · 04-20-2011, 07:10 AM

I would suggest half points to allow more more interpretation.

timmyjames · 04-20-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ai-edy2007

yea bro i totally agree man lay and pray sucks.

i could see that, getting cards for stalling

Ai-edy2007 · 04-20-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyjames

i could see that, getting cards for stalling

yea bro gray maynard and yushin okami would be in trouble

04-13-2011, 08:56 AM	#1
blacklikesunday Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: aussie Posts: 3,459 vCash: 1000	the scoring system. i keep reading that the current way of scoring fights is unpopular with most fans, so how should it be scored? i was just reading an old article with doc hamilton who thinks that bringing half points into the equation would really help. as i said, this is old news so i don't know if it was ever tried or not??? would it just be the same old problems but with added half points? would we still end up with stupid results in fights from time to time? i know its a completely different sport but would there be any merit in something like they have in olympic boxing? don't they get awarded a point when they land a clean punch?[although from what i've seen they often don't reward the fighters when they ARE hitting cleanly.] a certain number of points for takedowns, another number for kicks, etc? is there any scoring system that could eliminate these stupid results where everyone but the judges knows who really won? [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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04-13-2011, 04:09 PM	#2
scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: By any means necessary Posts: 43,279 vCash: 1000	Re: the scoring system. The scoring is hardly the issue. The fights suck. Plain and simple. Greg Jackson syndrome is rampant in MMA.
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04-13-2011, 06:43 PM	#3
Primate Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,454 vCash: 500	Re: the scoring system. The problem is the 10 point must system does not work in the three round fight. Rampage Machida is a perfect example. Rampage won the first two rounds, barely. He was moving forward more, he connected more, and he controlled the clinch against the cage more. But they were not clear rounds, no significant damage was done, nobody made any submission attempts and from memory there were no takedowns or ground control. Given what they had to work with, Rampage was rightfully given both rounds. However, the 3 round was very clearly and dominantly Machida. Wasn't quite enough to give him a 10-8, but he clearly won the round. Rampage ends up getting the decision, because there's not enough leeway in the 10 point must system. IMO, they should either be more willing in handing out 10-8 and even 10-7 or 10-6 rounds, or they should start scoring close rounds with a 10-10 or a 9-9. Two recent examples of 10-8 rounds are round 1 of Edgar-Maynard II and round 2 of Fedor-Silva. Edgar-Maynard ended up in a draw (and rightfully so, the fight was a draw if I ever saw one), but that first round could've very easily been scored a 10-7, I think the scoring guidelines even state something like 'clear dominance with one fighter being close to finished multiple times' (or something). Same with Fedor-Silva, Fedor was totally and utterly and without question dominated in that round. It would have sucked for Silva to come out for a very close third round and have that fight scored a draw. Anyways, for the most part, the judging in MMA sucks, you've got guys like Cecil Peoples and Tony Weeks who aren't held accountable for their actions at all, just look at the Phan-Garcia fight, which was totally ridiculous. Another reason is the 10 point must system just does no work for MMA, there are too many grey areas and no room to move in a three or even a 5 round fight. I liked someone from Sherdogs idea about awarding percentages of each round. Like Rampage-Machida would be scored, round 1: 55% Rampage, 45% Machida, round 2: 60% Rampage, 40% Machida, and round 3 25% Rampage, 75% Machida, so you'd get a score of like 160-140 for Machida. It more accurately reflects the % of control or dominance a fighter has in a given round. I quite liked that idea, better than the half points. It still won't stop incompetent judges, though.
Top

04-13-2011, 07:42 PM	#4
DyserthSpartan Journeyman ESB Jr Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Cardiff Posts: 117 vCash: 500	Re: the scoring system. 20 point must scoring system, like the WBU use to use
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04-13-2011, 10:27 PM	#5
blacklikesunday Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: aussie Posts: 3,459 vCash: 1000	Re: the scoring system. are there any judges who are ex-fighters at all? do they watch the fights on monitors these days?
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04-13-2011, 10:43 PM	#6
Will Cooling Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,618 vCash: 500	Re: the scoring system. The scoring system should be this: 1) Have judges at ringside 2) Give them a pencil and a piece of paper 3) At the end of each fight have them use the pencil to write on the paper who they thought won Once you add numbers or round by round scoring you are confusing the issue at hand and setting yourself up for the situation where the result the scoring system gives you is not the same as your overall view of the fight.
Top

04-14-2011, 02:34 AM	#7
achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,206 vCash: 1000	Re: the scoring system. MMA has less rounds and more things to score than boxing but unfortunately it is easier to stifle the fight for longer. I would say half points are the way. It would leave the rounds open to MUCH more interpretation and fighters would look to finish because they won't know what the score is. In that case I'd score the first round of Jardine-Mousasi 10-8.5.
Top

04-14-2011, 03:19 AM	#8
timmyjames PTurd curb stomper East Side Guru Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 7,428 vCash: 3111	Re: the scoring system. i know pride judged the fight, not the round...i know they also had important aspects of the fight to be judged (strikes, TDs, TDD, damage, etc.) but of all the parts of a fight that carried the most weight was which fighter tried to finish the fight more. I'm not sure if this is part of the current UFC model, but it could possible have an effect on the whole rashid lay and pray garbage. but yeah, the 10 point must thing in these 3 round fights is just no good
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04-14-2011, 07:57 PM	#9
Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHERFUCKER ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 3,974 vCash: 500	Re: the scoring system. should make it pride rules in the cage that would be sick!!!
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04-19-2011, 07:03 PM	#10
Windigo Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,166 vCash: 1000	Re: the scoring system. Bring back yellow cards.
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04-20-2011, 07:10 AM	#13
achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,206 vCash: 1000	Re: the scoring system. I would suggest half points to allow more more interpretation.
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