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Old 07-01-2007, 02:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

WBA has really lost it´s meaning. Imagine if Owen Beck had surprised the very limited Valuev and become a world champion.

Even Sebastian Sylvester has a fair chance of coming a WBA World Champion. He fights like Sturm but picks his shots well and moves forward and isn´t afraid of trading. Hell, he would already be it if it wasn´t for Asikainen.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:07 AM   #17
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBT
This joke of a title fight doesn't deserve any attention let alone an own thread.
I disagree

at any rate here we have a thread and its got to the 2nd page already Thanks for contributing, lads

THis opponent was no worse than loads of other title challengers had been before. Sturm took a fight in between to stay active. Nothing wrong with that
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Did you notice that Sturm didn't use more then a 2 punch combo up untill the 9th ? I thought it was a teribble performance by him
Can't blame Alcoba, the guy had only 14 fights.
Sturm should have taken him out. I wasn't impressed with him.
Agreed, his punches were ok and on the money but heis workrate is awfull
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Sturm was do good think and good job, he want stayed active and will look better opponent for future. He lost match with Castillejo because his mother died two week before the fight and he dident been concetrate. He is the best technicell middleweight fighter today. Lets see with Abraham, Tylor, Pavlik, Miranda and the others. The middleweight division have today the best competicion fighters. Everybody can beat the others, for the moment dont have favorite, maybe Tylor is little bit better.
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:19 AM   #20
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Right, he didnt open up until later in the fight, I suppose cos he didnt want to run the risk of getting caught flush. He was keen to avoid trading with the guy, thats what the other was waiting for I guess.The guest fighter kept the pressure on him all night didnt he and Sturm let him punch out on his gloves before retaliating with neat and accurate shots.

He would have taken him out if he were a puncher, which he is not.

I fail to see why this wasnt a convincing showing by Sturm, for me he won all rounds maybe bar one. You lot seem awefully sportforen infected, I agree that the opponent wasnt top notch but that has happened so often in the careers of title holders its almost pointless to mention. Had he not taken the fight he d have been inactive till September/early October when he s scheduled to face griffin.
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Old 07-02-2007, 04:15 AM   #21
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

I believe that if he wanted to make a impression on the world he had to do much better then this. Credits to him being active but let him make a statement then
I don't see him being champ for much longer
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Old 07-02-2007, 04:42 AM   #22
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

You never pick a guy like Alcoba to make an impression on the world, He s not good or renowned enough for that. Because had he indeed knocked him out early people would have bitched about his comp lacking class even more, they d have called Alcoba a bum with no chin while in this case with things as they are you cant take away from him he showed grit and guts and taking abilities till the end.

People read more into this than there is.
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Old 07-02-2007, 05:08 AM   #23
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

After Castillejo fight I thought Sturm tried to be smart and just avoid to get beaten up. Now I think the guy simply doesn't even want to try to fight no matter how helpless punch bag comes from the other corner! This kind of mach making gives bad taste a bad name. To me it really looked like Sturm either felt sorry for Acoba OR was instructed to let it go full distance not to make the audience mad. I mean... it's like if in the Olympics 100 m finalists would walk!!! Or how would it look: "Olympic gold medal in 100 m with the time 30,6 sec."

Another fight after which both fighters should be sent home without any kind of title! Just trying to think which one was more ridiculous performance by Sturm; this one or the one against Castillejo. Neither of them made him look like a champion.
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Old 07-02-2007, 11:41 AM   #24
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry
Right, he didnt open up until later in the fight, I suppose cos he didnt want to run the risk of getting caught flush. He was keen to avoid trading with the guy, thats what the other was waiting for I guess.The guest fighter kept the pressure on him all night didnt he and Sturm let him punch out on his gloves before retaliating with neat and accurate shots.

He would have taken him out if he were a puncher, which he is not.

I fail to see why this wasnt a convincing showing by Sturm, for me he won all rounds maybe bar one. You lot seem awefully sportforen infected, I agree that the opponent wasnt top notch but that has happened so often in the careers of title holders its almost pointless to mention. Had he not taken the fight he d have been inactive till September/early October when he s scheduled to face griffin.
Good post,merry! I am certainly still not sold on Sturm,but I dont hesitate to admit that he showed an almost flawless performance against a limited but game opponent.Sturm is no puncher,and why should he take an unneccassry risk !
Sturm vs Alcola was fun to watch IMO.No truly outstandingly entertaining fight or a real thriller,but fun to watch.I guess that every real box aficionado can appreciate Sturm's performance against Alcola.
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Old 07-02-2007, 12:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry
THis opponent was no worse than loads of other title challengers had been before. Sturm took a fight in between to stay active. Nothing wrong with that
Don't even start with this crap. Because other guys do this shit he has to do the same? Even if he constantly talks trash about the top guys and how he wants to fight them?

I mean Sturm is a paper "champ" of the worst kind but let's play the game: If you want to stay active, take on the best available opponent, not the worst. If the WBA rules would allow the "champ" to defend against the #100 of their ranking Sturm would have fought the #100 last Saturday.
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:03 PM   #26
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NBT
Don't even start with this crap. Because other guys do this shit he has to do the same? Even if he constantly talks trash about the top guys and how he wants to fight them?

I mean Sturm is a paper "champ" of the worst kind but let's play the game: If you want to stay active, take on the best available opponent, not the worst. If the WBA rules would allow the "champ" to defend against the #100 of their ranking Sturm would have fought the #100 last Saturday.
Imo rubbish, with a mandatory in sight within a mere 2 months from now you do not take on the best out there. Quite apart from the fact that Kohl´s the one responsible for picking an opponent and not Sturm, but even so I fail to see why he should take a risk with a more demanding fight very close at hand.

The main point where we disagree - I presume - may not even be the question whether or not the opponent was that worthy of a shot, I already said he wasnt and added lots of others before hadnt either so I dont understand the fuss, but rather your comment it wasnt worth starting a thread about it. IMo thats where you are wrong, whether you like or dislike the matchmaking, this was prime time boxing televized to several millions with a world title at stake in front of several thousands in a packed arena. Thats enough reasons to report about it even if you personally question the quality of the opponent or opt to critisize the matchmaking, but there has to be a thread about it, imo.

I fail to see why he should be a paper champ, he beat DLH by all accounts and holds wins over cherifi, schenk, castillejo, masoe, fernandez (who beat konecny though it was a disputed decision) verlasco on his title debut amongst others. You simply vehemently dislike him, which you re entitled to, no big deal, but thats not where I come from. I ll keep reporting about him, at any rate
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo
Good post,merry! I am certainly still not sold on Sturm,but I dont hesitate to admit that he showed an almost flawless performance against a limited but game opponent.Sturm is no puncher,and why should he take an unneccassry risk !
Sturm vs Alcola was fun to watch IMO.No truly outstandingly entertaining fight or a real thriller,but fun to watch.I guess that every real box aficionado can appreciate Sturm's performance against Alcola.
Thanks for saying that Odo.

At times he reminded me just a bit of Trabant in this very fight, one of my fav German fighters of the past, though he (trabant in this case ) was no true world beater, but what a warrior he was and he did provide us with thrilling encounters. Well Sturm of course fought a more clever fight than Trabant would have had he been in his shoes, but his anticipating the opponent´s move and beating him to the punch, accuracy coupled with speed was something I enjoyed a lot. Its been said he has to upp his level when he faces a more demanding opponent next time round.

What can you tell me about Griffin, I do not follow Yank boxing much these days for lack of time, whats his style like, all I can go by is his rec on boxrec.
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Old 07-03-2007, 02:59 AM   #28
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
my main problem with alcoma , is that he was so slow of hand i am still waiting for a punch he threw last night to get there this morning.

if he was my postman i would complain.
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:37 AM   #29
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry
Imo rubbish, with a mandatory in sight within a mere 2 months from now you do not take on the best out there. Quite apart from the fact that Kohl´s the one responsible for picking an opponent and not Sturm, but even so I fail to see why he should take a risk with a more demanding fight very close at hand.
I think we should talk about the term "Championship fight" here. Mandatory or not, championship fight should be between fighters where the both of them can be with good reasoning considered serious candidates to win the championship. The word "Champion" in my opinion has a value that suggests that the person is the best of them all. That kind of person shouldn't have to pick and choose who he has guts to face in the ring. A real champion fights anybody as long as he is given sufficient time to prepare for the fight and period.

In this case the challenger did not have a slightest chance, maybe a lucky punch, in my opinion not even that.

This of course is wasn not Sturms fault when we look at it. Of course as long as such thing as voluntary defence exists the champ can choose his opponent for such event as long as the opponent qualifies for that kind of fight on behalf of WBA. I would target my criticizm towards WBA here. I can not help getting the impression that Venezuela/Panama based organization wanted to bring up "their own boy", in this case South American champion.

Knowing how things in general work and are handled in South American countries (I have family in Venezuela and I've seen a bit of how things are done there) I am not surprised that a guy like Alcoba first of all is South American champion and also gets to step in World Championship fight.

Frankly, considering this I see the whole WBA in new light, but that's a matter of another conversation.
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Old 07-03-2007, 09:09 AM   #30
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Default Re: No thread on Sturm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leifhackman
I think we should talk about the term "Championship fight" here. Mandatory or not, championship fight should be between fighters where the both of them can be with good reasoning considered serious candidates to win the championship. The word "Champion" in my opinion has a value that suggests that the person is the best of them all. That kind of person shouldn't have to pick and choose who he has guts to face in the ring. A real champion fights anybody as long as he is given sufficient time to prepare for the fight and period.

In this case the challenger did not have a slightest chance, maybe a lucky punch, in my opinion not even that.

This of course is wasn not Sturms fault when we look at it. Of course as long as such thing as voluntary defence exists the champ can choose his opponent for such event as long as the opponent qualifies for that kind of fight on behalf of WBA. I would target my criticizm towards WBA here. I can not help getting the impression that Venezuela/Panama based organization wanted to bring up "their own boy", in this case South American champion.

Knowing how things in general work and are handled in South American countries (I have family in Venezuela and I've seen a bit of how things are done there) I am not surprised that a guy like Alcoba first of all is South American champion and also gets to step in World Championship fight.

Frankly, considering this I see the whole WBA in new light, but that's a matter of another conversation.
Good post, true, but what can you do, you re touching the issue "is this still a sport or merely a business and how much credibility do the abc bodies still have"

The term "world championship" Imo has been devalued a long time ago by the various abc bodies, just think of the fact there s more than just one fighter per weightclass at the same time, all of them claiming to be the world champ, which in itself is a contradiction of the term "world champion", they re all merely WBA, IBF etc Champs, depending on what belt they have, but no true world champs except if they manage to unify belts. Im not taking any babbling about world champ honours seriously, exceptions excluded.

Its known the whole thing is run by business interests, so I dont really complain. The "Who gets catapulted up the rating´s ladder to get a shot", "who gets sidelined by the powers that be cos he doesnt want to sign over options to the promoter or wants to get paid more money than the promoter is prepared to pay, so in effect hes´too awkward to get contracted and therefore may not get a shot at a title despite deserving one, while others do get a shot despite beating no one worth mentioning".

The wba probably already lost much of its former credibility when they installed the "regular champ/super chmap nonsense" in order to be able to cash in on sanctioning fees twice each weightclass. the other bodies are no better in my eyes.

But thats plowing old ground, really, boxing simply is no welfare organization, so lets not delve further into this issue, I take it just the way it is.

Sturm´s opponent was no world title material but then thats been the case with other holders very often in the past, its ridiculous attempting to play the moral priest now and bash Sturm for it, and pretend we re all so shocked and revolted he took him on. Its a personal preference thing, you dislike him? then you ll bash him for the match (and vice versa ). However this may be, I m sure he´ll get more credit in case he beats griffin
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