Can Anderson Silva surpass fedor as the greatest ever?

[yaca you]

Originally Posted by Stoo

I didnt say give up mentally! I said he wilted due to the pressure he was put under by Fedor.

Originally Posted by Stoo

So Mirko's mental deficiencies when he doesn't steamroll guys are being overlooked?

Originally Posted by Stoo

It's not like Fedor knew what to expect from Mirko is it. He trained well to counter it and Mirko was left without a plan B which is an example of Cro Cop folding mentally.

wtf stoo?


stoo says Im a fedor nuthugger

whats obvious to me is apparently not clear to some like stoo. Fedor career is unsurpassed by gsp or silva or anybody else.

if you look at his career objectively fedor accomplished more than any other mma fighter. Fedor doent have embarassing losses in his peak years like other all time greats. from march 16th, 2003 through june 26th, 2010 fedor was the best heavyweight in the world. He beat everybody who stepped up to challenge him, and the whole world knew that if you could beat fedor you were the best in the world no matter which org you did it in.

dismissing this by calling me a fedor nutthugger doesnt change the facts does it?

Predending I am irrational doesnt make your arguments more rational.

guess what, Anderson silva is my favourite MMA fighter behind sakuraba, but I still can see that fedor has a stronger resume. This is objectivity, that most people have, but somehow you ignore.

the wellroudedness arguments are a distraction to the main point that fedor has something special, more significant to his fighting attributes than simply wellroundedness. Its something more mental, a focus, a drive to win, loads of heart maybe. wellroundedness will not allow him to outstrike one of the best if not the best strikers to ever compete in MMA.

Fedors striking is only overated if it was said he was the best strikers in mma, he is not, but he is among the best.

If your gonna have a mental breakdown when MMA fans say that fedor is the best MMA fighter of all time, then maybe you shouldnt post on a mma forum.

[AJAX]

what Fedor did until 2005 was remarkable to say the least, never slipping up in this sport seems almost impossible, however his resume after His CC win is sad to say the least.

Since then his resume consists of
Zulu- freakshow match to say the least.
Coleman- 40yrs old and already beat him
Lindlund- 38 yr old MW
HMC - freakshow fight and his best win over Jose Canseco.
Tim Sylvia- good win but Tim was in the midst of losing 4 of 5 fights
AA -good win and might be the 3rd best win of his career even though it's part of 0-4 for AA .
Rogers- a prospect because he ko'd AA and has no other notable wins.


It's hard to deny this isn't impressive at all since 2005.

[Kittikasem]

Originally Posted by Vitor Belfort

He has a sick resume

Defeated

Carlos Newton
Jeremy Horn
Jorge Rivera
Tony fryklund
Chris Leben
Rich Franklin 2x
Travis Lutter
Nate Marquardt
Dan Henderson
James Irvin
Patrick Cote
Thales Leites
Forrest Griffin
Damian Maia
Chael Sonen
Vitor Belfort

Anderson's resume is deep, but it doesn't have the star power of Fedor's. The only great fighter that Anderson has ever beaten was a pretty past-his-best Dan Henderson. Fedor beat prime #2 heavyweight of all-time Big Nog more than once, and beat prime #3 heavyweight of all-time Crocop. Fedor has beaten better fighters than Anderson has.

Who exactly is the 2nd best fighter that Anderson has ever beaten??? Is he anywhere even close to the calibre of a prime Crocop? Absolutely not.

[Stoo]

Im not having a mental beak down...
Im an excellent driver!

[yaca you]

Originally Posted by Will Cooling

On Fedor's skillset - to me Fedor came in with a world class sambo game and imposed that on his opponents. That sambo skillset meant he was unusually well-rounded for a fighter of the time and allowed him to be competitive whether the fight took place. That his was often seen as technically unsound is more to do with commentators not understanding sambo - as befits what is the Soviet version of modern day combatives in the US Army it was focused more on functionality and simplicity.

very interesting will, but I have to say that technically fedors striking defence is full of holes, the arlovski fight proved that for certain. fedor is often sloppy when throwing punches and as a result is off balance often while it is true that sambo striking is meant to complement sombo grappling, sloppy striking is sloppy striking whatever the reasons behind it may be.

Point taken about sambo doing things differently, but I dont think fedor is really a very technical guy anyway. His style is usually to jump in with both feet, and deal with whatever comes.

Not that fedor doesnt beleive in gameplans.

[Vitor Belfort]

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

Anderson's resume is deep, but it doesn't have the star power of Fedor's. The only great fighter that Anderson has ever beaten was a pretty past-his-best Dan Henderson. Fedor beat prime #2 heavyweight of all-time Big Nog more than once, and beat prime #3 heavyweight of all-time Crocop. Fedor has beaten better fighters than Anderson has.

Who exactly is the 2nd best fighter that Anderson has ever beaten??? Is he anywhere even close to the calibre of a prime Crocop? Absolutely not.

Rich Franklin at the time was ruling the middleweight division. Even franklin didn't think anderson deserve a title shot after only one fight(leben). The franklin win was pretty good.

Dan Henderson at the time was coming off the rampage loss and he still hold the pride fc welterweight title(middleweight in ufc) so it's not like silva was fighting a shot henderson. Dan Henderson is a very good win.

[Kittikasem]

Originally Posted by Vitor Belfort

Rich Franklin at the time was ruling the middleweight division. Even franklin didn't think anderson deserve a title shot after only one fight(leben). The franklin win was pretty good.

Dan Henderson at the time was coming off the rampage loss and he still hold the pride fc welterweight title(middleweight in ufc) so it's not like silva was fighting a shot henderson. Dan Henderson is a very good win.

- Nobody said Dan Henderson was shot, nobody said Dan Henderson was not a very good win

- Rich Franklin was never anywhere near the calibre of a Big Nog or a Crocop

[Will Cooling]

Originally Posted by yaca you

very interesting will, but I have to say that technically fedors striking defence is full of holes, the arlovski fight proved that for certain. fedor is often sloppy when throwing punches and as a result is off balance often while it is true that sambo striking is meant to complement sombo grappling, sloppy striking is sloppy striking whatever the reasons behind it may be.

Point taken about sambo doing things differently, but I dont think fedor is really a very technical guy anyway. His style is usually to jump in with both feet, and deal with whatever comes.

Not that fedor doesnt beleive in gameplans.

What's interesting about Fedor's mentality is that its very similar to how both Stann and Kennedy describe their reactions in the ring, something they put down to their military service. While Fedor wasn't a frontline soldier he was a member of the armed forces in Russia and so perhaps he got that steely determination from there. I think mental strength is important but they're are plenty of mentally strong fighters that don't achieve what Fedor did.

Sambo and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu are basically the prototypes of MMA - sambo being a modified version of Judo taught to Russian soldiers and some of the Gracie's honing the combat effectiveness of their jiu-jitsu in various hybrid contests. The reason Fedor has started to lose is that he hasn't really added anything to his sambo and today sambo really isn't the best base for MMA. As you've said compared to Muay Thai, Boxing and KickBoxing its striking looks sloppy and unrefined but in addition to that its submissions are inferior to jiu-jitsu and with so many folkstyle wrestlers in MMA its throws aren't that effective for taking men down. I think the last one is the most important - Fedor had the best 'wrestling' of any heavyweight in Pride but I just don't think that would have been the case against Velasquez, Carwin, Lesnar or even Couture.

Fedor really needs to come to America and learn more modern techniques but I doubt he has the desire to do that.

[Will Cooling]

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

- Nobody said Dan Henderson was shot, nobody said Dan Henderson was not a very good win

- Rich Franklin was never anywhere near the calibre of a Big Nog or a Crocop

You said he was past his best which is ridiculous. I love how all these Pride fighters all suddenly stopped being at their best the minute Pride closed.

And I think a few pages back there was a pretty good discussion about the relative merits of Franklin vs. Cro Cop.

[Vitor Belfort]

Dan henderson is 40 yrs old and still beat the strikeforce middleweight champion. Just saying

[greathamza]

Originally Posted by Vitor Belfort

Dan henderson is 40 yrs old and still beat the strikeforce middleweight champion. Just saying

he still lost the fight but he is the LHW champ which isnt to bad either

[Vitor Belfort]

Originally Posted by greathamza

he still lost the fight but he is the LHW champ which isnt to bad either

oh my bad yea the light heavyweight title i meant

[Kittikasem]

Originally Posted by Will Cooling

You said he was past his best which is ridiculous. I love how all these Pride fighters all suddenly stopped being at their best the minute Pride closed.

And I think a few pages back there was a pretty good discussion about the relative merits of Franklin vs. Cro Cop.

Of course he was past his best. You think a prime Hendo goes life and death with Rich Franklin?! Sober up man.

Henderson was not shot, nowhere near it, but Silva did not beat the best version of Hendo there ever was. The best version of Hendo never fought in the UFC.

[Shogun Assassin]

Originally Posted by Vitor Belfort

Dan Henderson at the time was coming off the rampage loss and he still hold the pride fc welterweight title(middleweight in ufc).

That's true but Hendo did lose in the 2006 MW GP to Kazuo Misaki and moved up to LHW without defending the MW title against him, which takes away some meaning from the belt imo .

[Will Cooling]

Originally Posted by Kittikasem

Of course he was past his best. You think a prime Hendo goes life and death with Rich Franklin?! Sober up man.

Henderson was not shot, nowhere near it, but Silva did not beat the best version of Hendo there ever was. The best version of Hendo never fought in the UFC.

I do as a matter of fact. And as I said its awful convenient that these Pride superheroes all had their peaks end the minute they were shown to be human in the UFC or Strikeforce.