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Old 11-24-2007, 11:49 AM   #1
zippy
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Default Most overrated old-timer?

I saw Graziano mentioned in a thread here, and I never rated him as highly as some. He gets a lot of mileage out of his exciting fights with Zale, but lost two of those three, and Zale was relatively old at the time. Because of this I tend to think his legend weighs more than his accomplishments.

Who are some others? I know one or two will say Ali, but try to be creative.
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Jim Jeffries.
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Old 11-24-2007, 11:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
Jim Jeffries.
Interesting. I don't know all that much about him except he didn't have a lot of fights, beat Fitzsimmons twice, and came back to be Johnson's tether ball for a while. Why do you say he's overrated?
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
Interesting. I don't know all that much about him except he didn't have a lot of fights, beat Fitzsimmons twice, and came back to be Johnson's tether ball for a while. Why do you say he's overrated?
Well, according to people like Janitor, Jeffries was a big, mean, athletic, hard hitting fighter who would beat Lennox Lewis, Sonny Liston and the like. No. A young, healthy Jeffries had his bones broken by a super middleweight (Fitzsimmons; the second most overrated fighter) and was clearly losing until he got lucky.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
Well, according to people like Janitor, Jeffries was a big, mean, athletic, hard hitting fighter who would beat Lennox Lewis, Sonny Liston and the like. No. A young, healthy Jeffries had his bones broken by a super middleweight (Fitzsimmons; the second most overrated fighter) and was clearly losing until he got lucky.

I hear you. Personally, I find it difficult to rate fighters with so few fights. There's just not a lot to go on.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Alas, Fitzsimmons was somewhat 'loaded' that night and managed to break his own hands on Jeffries noggin'.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Manassa,

Jeffries was very young and green when he met Fitz.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

I rate Jeffries.

I think that Dempsey is the most overated HW, though he was a wonderful puncher.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon
Alas, Fitzsimmons was somewhat 'loaded' that night and managed to break his own hands on Jeffries noggin'.
Jeffries should be proud of the fact his defence was piss poor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMT
Manassa,

Jeffries was very young and green when he met Fitz.
You're right. I forgot about all the following fights where Jeffries improved. All eight of them
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Fitzsimmons was a scientist when it came to punching and he sported weighted gloves in this fight.

Jeffries did not march into his opponents until he won, he kept his distance and then pounced.

Contrary to the fabled belief of Jeffries blood-n-guts way winning the day, these bouts were full of skill - quick, feinting movements by Jeffries while looking to maul, and Fitzsimmons anticipating and spearing his larger adversary to keep him away.

They were high-octaine fights.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon
Fitzsimmons was a scientist when it came to punching and he sported weighted gloves in this fight.

Jeffries did not march into his opponents until he won, he kept his distance and then pounced.

Contrary to the fabled belief of Jeffries blood-n-guts way winning the day, these bouts were full of skill - quick, feinting movements by Jeffries while looking to maul, and Fitzsimmons anticipating and spearing his larger adversary to keep him away.

They were high-octaine fights.
I suppose you think he fought out of a crouch as well? And carried a grizzly bear on his back from British Columbia to New York?
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

I would say Dempsey. Too many rate him high 'because everyone does' (just like they did in the 50's) or merely on his brutal destruction of Willard.


Some have him in the top3 or top5 which is higher than his accomplishments allow him to be in my opinion. Unless you're ranking on historical standing, first million dollar gate, record for avoiding a challenger for the longest period of time, etc etc.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:48 PM   #13
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Too many rate him high 'because everyone does' (just like they did in the 50's) or merely on his brutal destruction of Willard.
Big thing that. I understand it too. Those few minutes are absolutley thrilling. The guy from the first round....is there anything even romotely comparable on film?

I have him at 12 or 13, I don't feel the least bit bad about it. But maybe unlike you Chris, i'm a bit of a Dempsey fan. I do understand why people get so into it. I do understand why he's overated.

But I feel that he is, and I think the Willard film is his main reason for this.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

really? Majority of the people atleast here rate him in the bottom of the top 10.
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Old 11-24-2007, 12:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Most overrated old-timer?

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Originally Posted by dmt
really? Majority of the people atleast here rate him in the bottom of the top 10.
I see him as high as three sometimes. That's madness.
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