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Old 04-28-2011, 02:33 PM   #1
Lunny
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Default Sam Langford

Which heavyweights of the past would he be able to match up with?

My knowledge on him is extremely limited so I'm not trying to make any ignorant point here. I've always read here how highly rated he is at heavyweight by some of you guys so looked into it a bit and saw that he was only 5'6.5''!

It seems absurd to think he would have done well in a later era than the one he fought in.

Is there anyone here who thinks he could have been competitive against any champion from the 30s onwards and why?


Teach me a bit about this fella and his place in boxing history.

Thanks
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sam Langford

An old and fat Qawi was actually an inch shorter than Sam, with an inch less of reach, yet stole some rounds from old Foreman, a super heavyweight if ever there was one, so there actually is a modern visual to compare what Langford might have looked like in this day and age.
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Old 04-28-2011, 02:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sam Langford

langford was an unusual specimen. totaly out of proportion. very broad frame, very long arms and very short torso. He had a big head, hands and feet. when sam filled out he was a big man with short legs. from the waist up he was as big as most heavyweights of the day. he wasnt giving away reach, he hit as hard and sam was just as strong.

micky walker took on the best heavyweights without having an unusual frame in the 1930s. I see no reason why langford could not.

chris byrd and james toney were not big guys.

Aside from genuine giants there is not a lot between men of middleweight and up.

If you imagine super middleweights walk around at 189lb days after making 168lb, its not so hard to belive. super middleweights are actualy prety big guys these days, 10 years ago most would be solid crusierweights.

Today fighters want to be as big as they can at a smaller weight than is natural for them. A few rule changes and it could all go back to how it was.

Last edited by choklab; 04-28-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: Sam Langford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
An old and fat Qawi was actually an inch shorter than Sam, with an inch less of reach, yet stole some rounds from old Foreman, a super heavyweight if ever there was one, so there actually is a modern visual to compare what Langford might have looked like in this day and age.
Damn, I never realised Qawi was that short. Good shout, I'll check that fight out.

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
langford was an unusual specimen. totaly out of proportion. very broad frame, very long arms and very short torso. He had a big head, hands and feet. when sam filled out he was a big man with short legs. from the waist up he was as big as most heavyweights of the day. he wasnt giving away reach, he hit as hard and sam was just as strong.

micky walker took on the best heavyweights without having an unusual frame in the 1930s. I see no reason why langford could not.

chris byrd and james toney were not big guys.

Aside from genuine giants there is not a lot between men of middleweight and up.

If you imagine super middleweights walk around at 189lb days after making 165lb, its not so hard to belive. super middleweights are actualy prety big guys these days, 10 years ago most would be crusierweights.

Today fighters want to be as big as they can at a smaller weight than is natural for them. A few rule changes and it could all go back to how it was.
Cheers, some food for thought there. Appreciated.
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Sam Langford

I got back home looking forward to more Sam Langford knowledge and find this? The thread dropped to page two?!

Come on fellas, show some passion for the guy! Introduce him to an ignorant fan!
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: Sam Langford

if he was transported to later eras and advanced through it with modern benefits, i think he would still be great. versus heavyweights.. i think he could be competitive too. there may be certain guys who could handle him, but overall i think he would be more than alright.

i will probably get some arguments but in general i see him having issues (nothing major perhaps) with some larger fighters in modern years. as training/nutrition and human bodies have progressed, humans have become bigger, stronger, and faster in general. key words being 'in general'. many more agile, fast, and flexible athletes that are over 6'4". i do not believe men that size back then were near athletes of today in regards to being well rounded in speed, power, and movement.

i know he is skilled in many areas and physically special despite his size, which is why i believe he would be more than competitive. but i am not sure in today's limited rounds and advanced training/nutrition/preparations, that he would be supremely dominant.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:54 AM   #7
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Default Re: Sam Langford

The fact that half dead langford was able to twice knockout prime wills says it all for me.

I'll be stripping his resume down tomorrow in terms of top ten opponents.

Most feel he should have been granted a rematch with johnson.

Some feel he overtook johnson when he stopped making meaningful defences.

The guy is a legend and a good shout for the goat, but more than that, he filled out into a heavyweight frame.
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sam Langford

On a major side note, how much sense does it make that Qawi was actually able to trouble Foreman, regardless of his age? Honestly, I don't think I can fathom a worse stylistic matchup, and yet Dwight was able to make his mark on that one.
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Sam Langford

I believe that the amount of seasoning and tricks Sam picked up would go a long way, it has to count for something. with smaller gloves there was a lot more scope with being able to manipulate the opponents positioning and also less room for mistakes. these skills (arm pull turns, parrying, inside shovel hooks and shovel uppercuts) are harder to use with modern gloves and no longer developed but fighters who used them easily adapted them wearing bigger gloves in training. Sam was expert at feinting someone into his range and pulling the trigger, even when half blind. all the modern explosive power training, nutrition and athletic capabilities wont stop a modern fighter having the pace controlled by a wiser fighter, buying a feint and walking onto a shot he cant see coming. Sam was an expert at what he did he would have an edge in any era.
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sam Langford

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum View Post
An old and fat Qawi was actually an inch shorter than Sam, with an inch less of reach, yet stole some rounds from old Foreman, a super heavyweight if ever there was one, so there actually is a modern visual to compare what Langford might have looked like in this day and age.

Wasn't Sammy Lang 5' 9" tall?

Qawi is often listed at 5' 7" tall, but the truth is, he's 5' 6 3/4" tall.....

Sammy Lang was great for his era, but many of the post 1920 heavies up until here in 2011, would beat his cagey and skilled little ass to a pulp.....

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Old 04-29-2011, 06:08 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sam Langford

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoliSari View Post
if he was transported to later eras and advanced through it with modern benefits, i think he would still be great. versus heavyweights.. i think he could be competitive too. there may be certain guys who could handle him, but overall i think he would be more than alright.

i will probably get some arguments but in general i see him having issues (nothing major perhaps) with some larger fighters in modern years. as training/nutrition and human bodies have progressed, humans have become bigger, stronger, and faster in general. key words being 'in general'. many more agile, fast, and flexible athletes that are over 6'4". i do not believe men that size back then were near athletes of today in regards to being well rounded in speed, power, and movement.

i know he is skilled in many areas and physically special despite his size, which is why i believe he would be more than competitive. but i am not sure in today's limited rounds and advanced training/nutrition/preparations, that he would be supremely dominant.
This is a thoughtful post .
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Sam Langford

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Wasn't Sammy Lang 5' 9" tall?

Qawi is often listed at 5' 7" tall, but the truth is, he's 5' 6 3/4" tall.....

Sammy Lang was great for his era, but many of the post 1920 heavies up until here in 2011, would beat his cagey and skilled little ass to a pulp.....

MR.BILL
BoxWRECK lists Ike's height at 5'-5-1/2" with a 71 inch reach, and Sam as 5'-6-1/2" with a 72 inch reach. Of course the caveat here is that these statistics are coming from boxWRECK, not always the most reliable source of information. But there are numerous photographs of Qawi, a broad tank of a man, posing with retired champions from lighter weight classes who are obviously much taller than he. Langford was similarly broad.

Toney has been able to compete with top heavyweights after coming up from 160, has never been stopped (and continues to win at 42), and this against punchers like Rahman 2X, Holyfield (dropping and stopping Evander in his heavyweight debut) and Peter 2X. I've seen Toney's height listed as low as 5'8" and his reach is listed at 72 inches, the same as Langford's.

Sam had issues with Fulton's 6'6-1/2' height and 84 inch reach (albeit when Langford was 34 and fading). Of course Toney never took on Lennox, the Klitschkos, or any heavyweight over 6'3" for that matter, while I think Sam deserves ridiculous props for taking on the streaking Fulton when he did.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:06 PM   #13
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Default Re: Sam Langford

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Originally Posted by Lunny View Post
It seems absurd to think he would have done well in a later era than the one he fought in.

Is there anyone here who thinks he could have been competitive against any champion from the 30s onwards and why?
Why don't we start by asking the people who saw him fight:

Fireman Flynn

“I fought most of the heavyweights, including Dempsey and Johnson, but Sam could stretch a guy colder than any of them. When Langford hit me it felt like somebody had slugged me with a baseball bat. It was like taking ether. You just went to sleep.”

“If you ask me, Il say that the hardest hitter I ever went up against was Sam Langford”.

Gunboat Smith

On being asked who was the best he ever fought (he fought Dempsey and Wills).

“That’s an easy one. Sam Langford and nobody came close to being as good as he was at his peak”

“Langford vs Dempsey both in their prime would have been bad news for Dempsey. He could be hit with a right hand and if anybody had a right hand it was the tar baby. I will go further and declare that Langford would have waded through every heavyweight champion we’ve had including the current soldier boy Joe Louis. Louis is a great champ, but he is inclined to get hot and bothered when the going gets rough. Langford was as cool as an iceberg every minute that he was in there. He never lost his head.”

Joe Jeanette

“Sam would have been champion any time Johnson would have given him a fight and Johnson knew it better than anybody”

“How that baby could hit. Nobody else could hit like that. Well, maybe Joe Louis could but Sam only weighed 160lbs. Joe Louis was about 195.”

Jack Blackburn

“My boy (Joe Louis) is still two years removed from his prime. By then I will have him in Langford’s class.”

Joe Williams

On being asked how Sam Langford would do against Joe Louis.

“Just too much of a fighter. There wasn’t anything Sam couldn’t do and if he had a weakness then nobody ever found out what it was. I have plenty of respect for Joe Louis as a hitter, but I can’t see him hitting Sam hard enough to make him mad”

Harry Wills

“He was a real professional, the kind of fighter you’d like to be but know that however hard you try you’ll never make it. Sam never made a mistake, he always held command and when he knocked me out in New Orleans, I thought I had been killed.”

“He was marvellous as a fighting man, I'd venture to say unbeatable in his prime.”

John L Sullivan

“Jim Jeffries has gone to the place that forbids him from facing a young strong fellow like Jack Johnson and he will never enter the ring again. Sam Langford is the worlds best and he can trim Johnson, Ketchel, Papke and the rest one after the other. Johnson knows this and is sidestepping his fellow fighter at every turn of the road.”
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sam Langford

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Why don't we start by asking the people who saw him fight:

Fireman Flynn

“I fought most of the heavyweights, including Dempsey and Johnson, but Sam could stretch a guy colder than any of them. When Langford hit me it felt like somebody had slugged me with a baseball bat. It was like taking ether. You just went to sleep.”

“If you ask me, Il say that the hardest hitter I ever went up against was Sam Langford”.

Gunboat Smith

On being asked who was the best he ever fought (he fought Dempsey and Wills).

“That’s an easy one. Sam Langford and nobody came close to being as good as he was at his peak”

“Langford vs Dempsey both in their prime would have been bad news for Dempsey. He could be hit with a right hand and if anybody had a right hand it was the tar baby. I will go further and declare that Langford would have waded through every heavyweight champion we’ve had including the current soldier boy Joe Louis. Louis is a great champ, but he is inclined to get hot and bothered when the going gets rough. Langford was as cool as an iceberg every minute that he was in there. He never lost his head.”

Joe Jeanette

“Sam would have been champion any time Johnson would have given him a fight and Johnson knew it better than anybody”

“How that baby could hit. Nobody else could hit like that. Well, maybe Joe Louis could but Sam only weighed 160lbs. Joe Louis was about 195.”

Jack Blackburn

“My boy (Joe Louis) is still two years removed from his prime. By then I will have him in Langford’s class.”

Joe Williams

On being asked how Sam Langford would do against Joe Louis.

“Just too much of a fighter. There wasn’t anything Sam couldn’t do and if he had a weakness then nobody ever found out what it was. I have plenty of respect for Joe Louis as a hitter, but I can’t see him hitting Sam hard enough to make him mad”

Harry Wills

“He was a real professional, the kind of fighter you’d like to be but know that however hard you try you’ll never make it. Sam never made a mistake, he always held command and when he knocked me out in New Orleans, I thought I had been killed.”

“He was marvellous as a fighting man, I'd venture to say unbeatable in his prime.”

John L Sullivan

“Jim Jeffries has gone to the place that forbids him from facing a young strong fellow like Jack Johnson and he will never enter the ring again. Sam Langford is the worlds best and he can trim Johnson, Ketchel, Papke and the rest one after the other. Johnson knows this and is sidestepping his fellow fighter at every turn of the road.”

Cheers for posting these, haven't seen the full Sullivan or Gunboat Smith ones before!
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sam Langford

also langford would probably been at 160 or 168 if his heavyweight trays where today...does that make sense?

he has a freakishly long reach and rather agile.

even guys who where not the best in any major areas who had huge size defecet still gave good performances. take montell griffin, never got the shine he could of but he was outboxing both roy jones and michalczewski until he was stopped by better opposition.

ian napa
meldrick taylor
qawi


yeah doesn't matter don't know where im going with this but. yeah he would be able to compete. be able to win matches and wins belts and over elite competition.
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