Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-05-2012, 11:42 AM   #31
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,315
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
You are WRONG. Ducking a punch is evasive head movement. This is on the Sharkey film.


Furthermore there are news clips that describe Jeffries making Fitz and Corbett miss often.


To bait your silly @ss, I will wager a month ban that I can post it this in news write ups.. Man up or shut up. I'll be back to read your reply later on.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-05-2012, 02:22 PM   #32
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

I admit that Baer likely fought the overall tougher competition, but as far as size and strength is concerned, its pretty even there. But I will give the single-shot power edge to Baer...

Anyway, styles make fights... No doubt about that... And I think stylistically speaking, "Jeff & Baer" would be a burner in the ring for ever how long the fight goes... I doubt this fight would see the 15th and final round...

I'm gonna be bold. I like Jeff...

MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 03:57 AM   #33
MadcapMaxie
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,406
vCash: 500
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I don't think that it was.

Neither of these guys were defensive masters, but Jeffries probably had a lot more teirs to his defence, and this might possibly be the deciding factor.
Probably? please show me video footage where he does anything that could be remotley called "defence", Baer at least did a cross armed defence on occasion i've never seen Jeffries do anything defensive wise. Also it seriously wont be the deciding factor as niether man had, technically, a "defence" to them, this is going down purely to physical gifts and Baer just blows Jeffries right outta the water, much better chin and bigger punch, stamina about equal as is speed.
MadcapMaxie is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 04:27 AM   #34
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,315
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Probably? please show me video footage where he does anything that could be remotley called "defence", Baer at least did a cross armed defence on occasion i've never seen Jeffries do anything defensive wise. Also it seriously wont be the deciding factor as niether man had, technically, a "defence" to them, this is going down purely to physical gifts and Baer just blows Jeffries right outta the water, much better chin and bigger punch, stamina about equal as is speed.

With regards to Jeffries head movement ,and defensive skills
Below is a link, that gives a round by round report of the second Jeffries v Fitz fight. Fitz was 39 years old ,was conceding 47lbs ,and had been retired for 2 years.
A ringside report states that Fitz made a "pitiable spectacle" of Jeffries for
7 of the 8 rds the fight lasted.

Without picking a winner ,it might be worth considering that Baer at 210lbs and 6'2.5" would be 38lbs heavier than Fitz, 3" taller ,and,at 25 ,would be 14 years younger.

He would also be significantly the biggest man Jeffries ever fought , before his comeback.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by mcvey; 03-06-2012 at 04:40 AM.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 05:33 AM   #35
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,102
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

This report mentions Jeffries speed, and defense vs Fitz.

JEFFRIES A KINGPIN<BR>

<BR>
(Los Angeles Daily Times, Sat., June 10, 1899)<BR>
<BR>
By Direct Wire to The Times<BR>
<BR>
CONEY ISLAND SPORTING CLUB (N.Y.), June 9 -- (Exclusive Dispatch) Big Jim<BR>
Jeffries of Los Angeles is the champion pugilist of the world. At the Coney<BR>
Island Athletic Club tonight he defeated Robert Fitzsimmons in a fast and<BR>
vicious contest that went eleven rounds. He fought with the coolness and<BR>
precision of a veteran, and at no time was he in danger of meeting with<BR>
defeat. It was a fair and square contest, marked by a brilliant display of<BR>
science on both sides, and was fairly and squarely won. The young Californian<BR>
showed himself a master at every point in the game, and won as he pleased<BR>
after he had taken the measure of his opponent.<BR>
<BR>
To those who had seen him before he offered the greatest surprise. He was no<BR>
longer a clumsy, awkward boxer, hesitating to lead or to follow an advantage,<BR>
but a finished fighter, keen and alert for an opening, and swift to take and<BR>
follow an advantage when it came to him. He came to the ring in superb<BR>
condition, and the first round that he fought had no apparent effect upon him.<BR>
As he stood over the prostrate form of his bleeding and unconscious opponent<BR>

he looked fit to go on for another hour. He was punished throughout the fight,<BR>
for no man who never before met reverse, without being hit hard and often; but<BR>
he stood up to it with a lion-like courage, and never faltered.<BR>
<BR>
He showed an entirely different method of boxing. He crouched very low, with<BR>
his left arm extended, and Fitzsimmons seemed lost as to the best method of<BR>
finding him. His defense was nearly perfect. He also showed wonderful<BR>
improvement in footwork and hitting power. He was as lively as a lightweight<BR>
on his feet, and repeatedly ducked the undercutting swings of his opponent. He<BR>
has stopped cuffing and chopping. He punches and hooks and swings with the<BR>
precison of a finished boxer.<BR>
<BR>
It was a great battle, and the young victor will probably remain the champion<BR>
for years to come. He has size, weight and speed, and the comparative ease<BR>
with which he defeated Fitz, whom they all feared, will give him wonderful<BR>
confidence.<BR>
<BR>
Jeffries won a fortune by his wonderful victory, and furnished one of the<BR>
greatest upsets in the history of pugilistic betting. Hundreds of thousands of<BR>
dollars were placed on him at the ruling odds of 2 to 1. Fitz was regarded as<BR>
a sure winner, and was liberally backed

It was admitted that he was at a<BR>
disadvantage, as far as youth, weight and reach were concerned, but his<BR>
backers relied upon his speed and cleverness to pull him through. It was<BR>
though that he would simply stand away from his man, and jab and chop him to a<BR>
finish. In reality, he found himself pitted against a man just as fast as<BR>
himself and equally clever as a boxer. He went in with every confidence, only<BR>
to be fooled by the young giant whom he faced, and then beaten to a knockout<BR>
by superior strength.<BR>
<BR>
The credit for Jeffries' notable victory belongs to the men who prepared him.<BR>
Billy Delaney, who developed the Corbett that whipped John L. Sullivan, was<BR>
his guide. With the eye of an expert, he studied and guarded Jeffries'<BR>
physical development and care and Tommy Ryan and Jim Daly taught him the<BR>
science of the ring. In six weeks they accomplished, with the excellent<BR>
material in their hands, what ordinarily takes years of actual experience to<BR>
do. They had raw material, and they whipped it into shape.<BR>
<BR>
As is usually the case, the man on the short end of the betting had the crowd<BR>
behind him, and the young Californian was cheered on to victory. When it<BR>
became apparent that he was standing his opponent off and taking the lead, he<BR>
jumped into marvelous popularity, and New York will tomorrow hail him as King.<BR>
He will retain his popularity, for he is as modest as a girl. He prepared for<BR>
the battle without a word of disrespectful nature for his opponent, and was<BR>
clam in victory. He had said in calm, but determined way, that he was going to<BR>
win. He believed it, and realization was but proof of his words. Again, he is<BR>
the first American in this half of the century to win the championship, and<BR>
among the thousands of patrons of the ring he will be hailed for that respect.<BR>
<BR>
It was California's night in pugilism, for principal, manager and trainer<BR>
claim the Golden State as home. In the house, too, there was a hopeful little<BR>
band of Californians, who cheered their favorite from the handshake to the<BR>
count-out. It was one of the few heavyweight championship events ever pulled<BR>


off in New York, and it was Gotham's first chance of seeing Fitzsimmons in a<BR>
real contest, and the fight provoked tremendous interest.<BR>
<BR>
It was 9 o'clock before the auditorium of the clubhouse began to fill up. The<BR>
crowd was a most remarkable one. There were delegations from almost every city<BR>
of importance in the United States and Canada, and in the number were all the<BR>
sporting men of note. Professional New York, however, contributed the largest<BR>
portion of the great audience that numbered nearly ten thousand and paid about<BR>
$100,000 for its sport.<BR>
<BR>
Both men entered the ring in splendid shape, and the fight proved that they<BR>
were so. There was but little time lost in the ring. Nobody paid any attention<BR>
to the announcements, and drowned the voice of Frank Burns, who made them. The<BR>
impatient, eager crowd had not come for speeches, but to see the fight.<BR>
Jeffries quietly slid off a red sweater and a pair of black trousers, and<BR>
showed the most remarkable physique that those present had ever seen. Great<BR>
masses of muscle lay on his back, chest and shoulders, but it played lightly<BR>
and swiftly when he moved.<BR>
<BR>
Fitzsimmons was finely drawn and lithe, and looked like a greyhound when he<BR>
tossed off his blue bathrobe. They were both under twoscore of great electric<BR>
lights that burned on the gallery over their heads, to furnish light for the<BR>
vitascope pictures, and seemed like actors under a huge calcium.<BR>
<BR>
When the gong sent them away, they both began to size one another up, and<BR>
nothing effective was done in the opening round. Fitz was aggressive in the<BR>
second and until the eighth round, but Jeffries stood up to him and fought him<BR>
back to a standstill. The Cornishman went down before a straight left in the<BR>
second round, and Jeffries kept putting his head back. Fitz persistently<BR>
pressed the Californian, but he had met his match, and was powerless to land<
an effective blow. He put his left on the young Californian's eye in the fifth<BR>
round and cut it, but Jeffries came back gamely and fought on.<BR>
<BR>
The Californian used his left effectively on the face and body, and also<BR>
brought his right into play on the body repeatedly. Fitzsimmons tried all his<BR>
tricks and devices, but was either blocked or countered harder than he led.<BR>
After the seventh round the young Californian had things all his own way. The<BR>
eighth round was all his. He sent the Australian staggering against the ropes<BR>
with a left-hander and again landed his left. Fitz went to his corner dazed.<BR>
<BR>
Fitz came back fairly strong in the ninth round, only to be beaten back. It<BR>
was all Jeffries' way, and there was consternation in the Fitzsimmons corner.<BR>
The crowd saw the inevitable result, and there were hoarse yells for the<BR>
Californian to go in.<BR>
<BR>
In the tenth round Fitz was beaten to a standstill, and it was only the call<BR>
of time that saved him. He was down twice, and was done for when he staggered<BR>
to his corner.<BR>
<BR>
The end came after a minute and a half of fighting in the eleventh round. It<BR>
was left and right from Jeffries, and the Australian, who had always never<BR>
known defeat, dropped down unconscious. His seconds frantically called to him,<BR>
but their words fell upon deaf ears. Referee Siler and the timers called off<BR>
the ominous count of ten, and there was a roar of applause that shook the<BR>
building up. A new champion was heralded.<BR>
<BR>
Jeffries' seconds swarmed around and embraced him, and in an instant hundreds<BR>
of spectators broke for the ring. The police stopped the advance, and while<BR>
Jeffries slipped through the ropes and ran for his dressing-room, Fitzsimmons,<BR>
still limp and unconscious, was carried to his corner. He was some time in<BR>
reviving, and then did not know he was beaten or that he had been in a fight.<BR
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 05:46 AM   #36
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,102
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Here is a detailed round by round report of Jeffries vs. Corbett. Far better than the one Mcvey posted. Take note that Jeffries was likely tied or in the lead prior to the knockout. Regarding Jeffries defense, at times he even made a fasted handed and skilled Corbett miss. Corbett's people said this was his best fight.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 06:03 AM   #37
MadcapMaxie
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,406
vCash: 500
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Here is a detailed round by round report of Jeffries vs. Corbett. Far better than the one Mcvey posted. Take note that Jeffries was likely tied or in the lead prior to the knockout. Regarding Jeffries defense, at times he even made a fasted handed and skilled Corbett miss. Corbett's people said this was his best fight.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
In any case i don't draw much from written reports i pefer me video footage that can't be detested and based upon video footage i'd say Jeffries has very little if any defence. Dodging some shots or pulling your head back as a reflex isn't what i'd call "defence".
MadcapMaxie is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 06:15 AM   #38
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,315
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
This report mentions Jeffries speed, and defense vs Fitz.

JEFFRIES A KINGPIN<BR>

<BR>
(Los Angeles Daily Times, Sat., June 10, 1899)<BR>
<BR>
By Direct Wire to The Times<BR>
<BR>
CONEY ISLAND SPORTING CLUB (N.Y.), June 9 -- (Exclusive Dispatch) Big Jim<BR>
Jeffries of Los Angeles is the champion pugilist of the world. At the Coney<BR>
Island Athletic Club tonight he defeated Robert Fitzsimmons in a fast and<BR>
vicious contest that went eleven rounds. He fought with the coolness and<BR>
precision of a veteran, and at no time was he in danger of meeting with<BR>
defeat. It was a fair and square contest, marked by a brilliant display of<BR>
science on both sides, and was fairly and squarely won. The young Californian<BR>
showed himself a master at every point in the game, and won as he pleased<BR>
after he had taken the measure of his opponent.<BR>
<BR>
To those who had seen him before he offered the greatest surprise. He was no<BR>
longer a clumsy, awkward boxer, hesitating to lead or to follow an advantage,<BR>
but a finished fighter, keen and alert for an opening, and swift to take and<BR>
follow an advantage when it came to him. He came to the ring in superb<BR>
condition, and the first round that he fought had no apparent effect upon him.<BR>
As he stood over the prostrate form of his bleeding and unconscious opponent<BR>

he looked fit to go on for another hour. He was punished throughout the fight,<BR>
for no man who never before met reverse, without being hit hard and often; but<BR>
he stood up to it with a lion-like courage, and never faltered.<BR>
<BR>
He showed an entirely different method of boxing. He crouched very low, with<BR>
his left arm extended, and Fitzsimmons seemed lost as to the best method of<BR>
finding him. His defense was nearly perfect. He also showed wonderful<BR>
improvement in footwork and hitting power. He was as lively as a lightweight<BR>
on his feet, and repeatedly ducked the undercutting swings of his opponent. He<BR>
has stopped cuffing and chopping. He punches and hooks and swings with the<BR>
precison of a finished boxer.<BR>
<BR>
It was a great battle, and the young victor will probably remain the champion<BR>
for years to come. He has size, weight and speed, and the comparative ease<BR>
with which he defeated Fitz, whom they all feared, will give him wonderful<BR>
confidence.<BR>
<BR>
Jeffries won a fortune by his wonderful victory, and furnished one of the<BR>
greatest upsets in the history of pugilistic betting. Hundreds of thousands of<BR>
dollars were placed on him at the ruling odds of 2 to 1. Fitz was regarded as<BR>
a sure winner, and was liberally backed

It was admitted that he was at a<BR>
disadvantage, as far as youth, weight and reach were concerned, but his<BR>
backers relied upon his speed and cleverness to pull him through. It was<BR>
though that he would simply stand away from his man, and jab and chop him to a<BR>
finish. In reality, he found himself pitted against a man just as fast as<BR>
himself and equally clever as a boxer. He went in with every confidence, only<BR>
to be fooled by the young giant whom he faced, and then beaten to a knockout<BR>
by superior strength.<BR>
<BR>
The credit for Jeffries' notable victory belongs to the men who prepared him.<BR>
Billy Delaney, who developed the Corbett that whipped John L. Sullivan, was<BR>
his guide. With the eye of an expert, he studied and guarded Jeffries'<BR>
physical development and care and Tommy Ryan and Jim Daly taught him the<BR>
science of the ring. In six weeks they accomplished, with the excellent<BR>
material in their hands, what ordinarily takes years of actual experience to<BR>
do. They had raw material, and they whipped it into shape.<BR>
<BR>
As is usually the case, the man on the short end of the betting had the crowd<BR>
behind him, and the young Californian was cheered on to victory. When it<BR>
became apparent that he was standing his opponent off and taking the lead, he<BR>
jumped into marvelous popularity, and New York will tomorrow hail him as King.<BR>
He will retain his popularity, for he is as modest as a girl. He prepared for<BR>
the battle without a word of disrespectful nature for his opponent, and was<BR>
clam in victory. He had said in calm, but determined way, that he was going to<BR>
win. He believed it, and realization was but proof of his words. Again, he is<BR>
the first American in this half of the century to win the championship, and<BR>
among the thousands of patrons of the ring he will be hailed for that respect.<BR>
<BR>
It was California's night in pugilism, for principal, manager and trainer<BR>
claim the Golden State as home. In the house, too, there was a hopeful little<BR>
band of Californians, who cheered their favorite from the handshake to the<BR>
count-out. It was one of the few heavyweight championship events ever pulled<BR>


off in New York, and it was Gotham's first chance of seeing Fitzsimmons in a<BR>
real contest, and the fight provoked tremendous interest.<BR>
<BR>
It was 9 o'clock before the auditorium of the clubhouse began to fill up. The<BR>
crowd was a most remarkable one. There were delegations from almost every city<BR>
of importance in the United States and Canada, and in the number were all the<BR>
sporting men of note. Professional New York, however, contributed the largest<BR>
portion of the great audience that numbered nearly ten thousand and paid about<BR>
$100,000 for its sport.<BR>
<BR>
Both men entered the ring in splendid shape, and the fight proved that they<BR>
were so. There was but little time lost in the ring. Nobody paid any attention<BR>
to the announcements, and drowned the voice of Frank Burns, who made them. The<BR>
impatient, eager crowd had not come for speeches, but to see the fight.<BR>
Jeffries quietly slid off a red sweater and a pair of black trousers, and<BR>
showed the most remarkable physique that those present had ever seen. Great<BR>
masses of muscle lay on his back, chest and shoulders, but it played lightly<BR>
and swiftly when he moved.<BR>
<BR>
Fitzsimmons was finely drawn and lithe, and looked like a greyhound when he<BR>
tossed off his blue bathrobe. They were both under twoscore of great electric<BR>
lights that burned on the gallery over their heads, to furnish light for the<BR>
vitascope pictures, and seemed like actors under a huge calcium.<BR>
<BR>
When the gong sent them away, they both began to size one another up, and<BR>
nothing effective was done in the opening round. Fitz was aggressive in the<BR>
second and until the eighth round, but Jeffries stood up to him and fought him<BR>
back to a standstill. The Cornishman went down before a straight left in the<BR>
second round, and Jeffries kept putting his head back. Fitz persistently<BR>
pressed the Californian, but he had met his match, and was powerless to land<
an effective blow. He put his left on the young Californian's eye in the fifth<BR>
round and cut it, but Jeffries came back gamely and fought on.<BR>
<BR>
The Californian used his left effectively on the face and body, and also<BR>
brought his right into play on the body repeatedly. Fitzsimmons tried all his<BR>
tricks and devices, but was either blocked or countered harder than he led.<BR>
After the seventh round the young Californian had things all his own way. The<BR>
eighth round was all his. He sent the Australian staggering against the ropes<BR>
with a left-hander and again landed his left. Fitz went to his corner dazed.<BR>
<BR>
Fitz came back fairly strong in the ninth round, only to be beaten back. It<BR>
was all Jeffries' way, and there was consternation in the Fitzsimmons corner.<BR>
The crowd saw the inevitable result, and there were hoarse yells for the<BR>
Californian to go in.<BR>
<BR>
In the tenth round Fitz was beaten to a standstill, and it was only the call<BR>
of time that saved him. He was down twice, and was done for when he staggered<BR>
to his corner.<BR>
<BR>
The end came after a minute and a half of fighting in the eleventh round. It<BR>
was left and right from Jeffries, and the Australian, who had always never<BR>
known defeat, dropped down unconscious. His seconds frantically called to him,<BR>
but their words fell upon deaf ears. Referee Siler and the timers called off<BR>
the ominous count of ten, and there was a roar of applause that shook the<BR>
building up. A new champion was heralded.<BR>
<BR>
Jeffries' seconds swarmed around and embraced him, and in an instant hundreds<BR>
of spectators broke for the ring. The police stopped the advance, and while<BR>
Jeffries slipped through the ropes and ran for his dressing-room, Fitzsimmons,<BR>
still limp and unconscious, was carried to his corner. He was some time in<BR>
reviving, and then did not know he was beaten or that he had been in a fight.<BR

Fact . Fitzsimmons was 37 years old ,had not fought in 2 years , was conceding 39lbs to Jeffries,and,13 years in age.

Fact. In their second fight,Fitzsimmons was 39 years old ,had been retired for 2 years was conceding 47lbs ,and 13years in age,

Fact. Fitzsimmons won every one of the 7 completed rounds.

Hype Igoe, famous reporter was ringside , he later stated it was the worst beating he ever saw inflicted on a man , worse than the Dempsey V Willard slaughter.
This was nearly 3 years after their first fight, yet Jeffries, with every conceivable advantage, did not win a round and ,had his face turned into hamburger .Great defence.

Last edited by mcvey; 03-06-2012 at 06:51 PM.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 07:07 AM   #39
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

I've always been lead to believe that Jeffries was a tough iron man who soaked up a lot of punishment, not a defensive master.

I'm sure he had skills, he was champion after all.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 05:23 PM   #40
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,315
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Here is a detailed round by round report of Jeffries vs. Corbett. Far better than the one Mcvey posted. Take note that Jeffries was likely tied or in the lead prior to the knockout. Regarding Jeffries defense, at times he even made a fasted handed and skilled Corbett miss. Corbett's people said this was his best fight.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Want to quote the NY TImes? Here is some for you



"For 20 rounds Jeffries received terrific punishment , he failed to reach Corbett and his seconds told him he would be an ex champion unless he did something".This has been corroborated by William Brady, Jeffries manager/trainer. and I posted it some time ago.
More ? "Probably the greatest amount of punishment Jeffries ever took, and he took a lot , was in the Fitz fight."
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by mcvey; 03-06-2012 at 05:45 PM.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 06:05 PM   #41
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,075
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
I admit that Baer likely fought the overall tougher competition
Nobody during Baer's career, would have compared any of his opponents (apart from Louis) to those of Jeffries!

Jeffries was seen as the Muhamad Ali figure at the time. He was the only ATG, who had beaten other ATG's.

Corbett and Fitzsimmons were consistently listed among the all time greats, just as Frazier and Foreman are today!
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 06:31 PM   #42
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Boxing progressed post Jeffries and the talent pool got much much deeper, although he was pretty average for his own era. Jeffries was slightly better than the shot champions of the era before him and didn't want to face the best of his era until he pretended to be past it

Baer was the much better puncher and a puncher against a pressure fighter with no defence (let's not pretend otherwise - Jeffries had no defence), would get KTFO. It's that simple
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 10:39 PM   #43
MRBILL
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 10,559
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

I'm a little bothered here when folks say Jimmy Jeff had no defense at all. C'mon! It's not like Jeff ate every punch thrown his way... He knew how to block / parry the basic shots tossed at him... Was Jeff a master at slipping and sliding to avoid shots? No, but he wasn't a human punching bag, either... People tend to scout the 1910 film of his fight with the great Jack Johnson way too much... Well, Jeff was 35 and a wee bit rusty, and he was fighting the best heavyweight in the world at that juncture in time....

Max Baer was no defensive wizard at all. So he crossed his arms at time, whooppee.. Baer was a wicked and reckless puncher who left himself wide open to a man who could counter with precision... Point is, Baer often got nailed when fighting elite opponents...

Fact is, in a time machine, a 1901 Jeff is gonna hit and nail a 1933 Baer, and vice-versa... Both are gonna eat leather... Like Gil Clancy used to say, "This is gonna come down to who is the better catcher."

MR.BILL
MRBILL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 04:45 AM   #44
MadcapMaxie
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,406
vCash: 500
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
I'm a little bothered here when folks say Jimmy Jeff had no defense at all. C'mon! It's not like Jeff ate every punch thrown his way... He knew how to block / parry the basic shots tossed at him... Was Jeff a master at slipping and sliding to avoid shots? No, but he wasn't a human punching bag, either... People tend to scout the 1910 film of his fight with the great Jack Johnson way too much... Well, Jeff was 35 and a wee bit rusty, and he was fighting the best heavyweight in the world at that juncture in time....

Max Baer was no defensive wizard at all. So he crossed his arms at time, whooppee.. Baer was a wicked and reckless puncher who left himself wide open to a man who could counter with precision... Point is, Baer often got nailed when fighting elite opponents...

Fact is, in a time machine, a 1901 Jeff is gonna hit and nail a 1933 Baer, and vice-versa... Both are gonna eat leather... Like Gil Clancy used to say, "This is gonna come down to who is the better catcher."

MR.BILL
I said this in a previous post this is gonna come down to physical gifts and Baer both hits harder and has the better chin, it's that simple. Baer by KO.
MadcapMaxie is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 06:04 AM   #45
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,315
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
Fellas,

For the sake of debate, let us pit 1900 or 1901 James J. Jeffries against 1933 or even 1934 Max Baer together in a 15 rounder for the "Champeen-Ship" of the world in a time machine designed by Motorola...

Jimmy Jeff was hatched in 1875, so at the turn of the century he was 25 or 26 years old and primed to rage in a cage...

Max Baer was hatched in 1909, so by the time he was a true champ in 1934 he was basically 25 years old and also primed to go like baby back ribs at the Outback...

I'm gonna be neutral here and go with 1927 boxing rules that Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney were generally forced to abide by in Chicago. Upon a knockdown, the man scoring the knockdown must go to the neutral corner and allow the referee to do an eight count over the fallen fighter...

I suppose, in this case, both Jeff and Baer would be required to wear 8 oz. gloves since 10 oz. gloves weren't used way back when they were fighting as heavyweights...

Both men can use modern day mouthpieces... None of this wooden crap or a ripped rag around the toungue malarkey.... Plastic pieces with a vent....

The ring size is a good size and fair size for heavyweights at 20 X 20...

Predictions?

C'mon back...

SR.BILLARDO
I don't think Jeffries was the complete, finished article in 1900-1901 so pitting him against the Baer that beat Schaaf,Levinsky and Griffiths in 32 and Schmeling in 33,Carnera in 34.
I'll go for Max by dec.
The Jeffries that beat Corbett in 1903 was a more polished Boilermaker imo. I would take him to beat Max,also by a decision.

Last edited by mcvey; 03-08-2012 at 05:35 AM.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013