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Old 03-07-2012, 06:42 AM   #46
Mendoza
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
I said this in a previous post this is gonna come down to physical gifts and Baer both hits harder and has the better chin, it's that simple. Baer by KO.
Please, Baer lost to Braddock, and did not have the heart for in many fights. Bear had no defense, no jab, just a big right hand. One shot is not going to take Jeffries out.

When Bear for Carnera, Jeffries was asked to pick a winner, and he just laughed and wished these two were around in his day.

Very few if any historians who saw both said Baer was better. I get the sense you are here for comedy.

Heavyweight between Tunney and Joe Louis was at a low point.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:27 AM   #47
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Please, Baer lost to Braddock, and did not have the heart for in many fights. Bear had no defense, no jab, just a big right hand. One shot is not going to take Jeffries out.

When Bear for Carnera, Jeffries was asked to pick a winner, and he just laughed and wished these two were around in his day.

Very few if any historians who saw both said Baer was better. I get the sense you are here for comedy.

Heavyweight between Tunney and Joe Louis was at a low point.

Is the underlined, some form of Mendoza shorthand?


We assume Jeffries would not be kod , or at least I do, but his whiskers were never tested against big heavyweights,especially one with the proven power of Baer.

I cant comment on any more of this post because it does not make grammatical sense.

I am certain you are here for comedy, the priceless thing about it is you are completely unaware of it.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:57 AM   #48
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Please, Baer lost to Braddock, and did not have the heart for in many fights. Bear had no defense, no jab, just a big right hand. One shot is not going to take Jeffries out.

When Bear for Carnera, Jeffries was asked to pick a winner, and he just laughed and wished these two were around in his day.

Very few if any historians who saw both said Baer was better. I get the sense you are here for comedy.

Heavyweight between Tunney and Joe Louis was at a low point.
Braddock was more dangerous than anybody Jeffries faced and for the most part alot bigger too. Baer hardly trained for this fight and injured both hands in the bout, he was recommended to wear a cast for a few weeks following the bout and another doctor said he shouldn't have fought with his hands in such condition.

As for your other points they mean sweet **** all, who did jeffries beat exactly who was either a) as big as b) as strong as c) as durable as d) hit as hard as Baer? In fact who in Jeffries looooong list of opposition can even compare to Baer. Fitzsimmons, who is no more skilled than Baer but siginifiantly older when Jeffries faced him, destroyed Jeffries face and Fitz was alot smalller, not as durable and didn't hit as hard.

You say Baer has no jab and no defence but same with Jeffries. You have given no points as to why Jeffries would be able to beat Baer, just posted shit. I'd seriously favour Galento over all the opponents Jeffries beat in the condition he faced them.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:15 PM   #49
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
I said this in a previous post this is gonna come down to physical gifts and Baer both hits harder and has the better chin, it's that simple. Baer by KO.
I think Baer might well have been the bigger puncher,

but what is the actual evidence that Baer had the better chin? Jeffries was never off his feet until he was 35 and it took Johnson 15 rounds to wear him down. Other than Louis, who creamed him, I am not certain whom Baer fought who would rate as a better puncher than those Jeffries fought.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:28 PM   #50
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by MRBILL View Post
I admit that Baer likely fought the overall tougher competition, but as far as size and strength is concerned, its pretty even there. But I will give the single-shot power edge to Baer...

Anyway, styles make fights... No doubt about that... And I think stylistically speaking, "Jeff & Baer" would be a burner in the ring for ever how long the fight goes... I doubt this fight would see the 15th and final round...

I'm gonna be bold. I like Jeff...

MR.BILL
"Baer likely fought the overall tougher competition"

But he lost to a lot of them. Jeffries retired undefeated and only lost in his comeback fight.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:47 PM   #51
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Braddock was more dangerous than anybody Jeffries faced and for the most part alot bigger too. Baer hardly trained for this fight and injured both hands in the bout, he was recommended to wear a cast for a few weeks following the bout and another doctor said he shouldn't have fought with his hands in such condition.

As for your other points they mean sweet **** all, who did jeffries beat exactly who was either a) as big as b) as strong as c) as durable as d) hit as hard as Baer? In fact who in Jeffries looooong list of opposition can even compare to Baer. Fitzsimmons, who is no more skilled than Baer but siginifiantly older when Jeffries faced him, destroyed Jeffries face and Fitz was alot smalller, not as durable and didn't hit as hard.

You say Baer has no jab and no defence but same with Jeffries. You have given no points as to why Jeffries would be able to beat Baer, just posted shit. I'd seriously favour Galento over all the opponents Jeffries beat in the condition he faced them.

"Braddock was more dangerous than anybody Jeffries faced"

This is sort of a circular argument. Braddock moved out of the "bum of the month club" class by beating Baer. Nothing else in his career record marks him as anything more than an ordinary contender.

I don't see considering Braddock more dangerous than the triple champion Fitzsimmons or Corbett, regardless of age.

"I'd seriously favour Galento over all the opponents Jeffries beat in the condition he faced them."

You mean the fat, aging, slipping Galento that Baer fought? I wouldn't put much money on him over the Corbett of 1900 or the Fitz of 1899. I wouldn't favor him over Sharkey either. Sharkey was in much better condition.

You say Jeff had no defense, but we have very little film other than the Johnson fight. I think it noteworthy Jeff fought out of crouch, which would help negate Baer's overhand right. Baer went 20 with the crouching Uzcudun and lost. It certainly seems reasonable that the much better Jeffries could match Uzcudun.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:14 PM   #52
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

As much as I love the "Cinderella Man" (Jimmy Braddock), Fact is he beat a lotta guys around 180 to 195 pounds in his heyday... However, yes, I am very bothered that a clowning Max Baer managed to blow his crown to Braddock in 1935 over 15 rds... Baer could punch, but he was not much of a technical boxer... Braddock's finess out-lasted Baer's right hand power... The loss to Braddock was embarrassing to team Baer.... But then came Joe Louis, and Baer was gallant / brave, yet still crushed inside 5 rds... Louis was just too sharp of a puncher for Baer to deal with to close 1935...

Baer's defense was not close to being top-notch...

MR.BILL
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:23 AM   #53
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"Braddock was more dangerous than anybody Jeffries faced"

This is sort of a circular argument. Braddock moved out of the "bum of the month club" class by beating Baer. Nothing else in his career record marks him as anything more than an ordinary contender.

I don't see considering Braddock more dangerous than the triple champion Fitzsimmons or Corbett, regardless of age.

"I'd seriously favour Galento over all the opponents Jeffries beat in the condition he faced them."

You mean the fat, aging, slipping Galento that Baer fought? I wouldn't put much money on him over the Corbett of 1900 or the Fitz of 1899. I wouldn't favor him over Sharkey either. Sharkey was in much better condition.

You say Jeff had no defense, but we have very little film other than the Johnson fight. I think it noteworthy Jeff fought out of crouch, which would help negate Baer's overhand right. Baer went 20 with the crouching Uzcudun and lost. It certainly seems reasonable that the much better Jeffries could match Uzcudun.
Please show me how the arguement is circular, anywho Braddock gets underrated a whole lot he had the unfortunate luck of coming across prime Louis and still managed to go 8 rounds and deck him. He was fairly skilled, good right hand, great heart, great stamina and a great chin. I do believe that the Braddock who beat Baer would have more of a showing against Jeffries than 37 y/o corbett who hadnt fought in 3 years and super middle Fitz who was 36 and 39.

As for that fat, aging Galento, yeah i do favour him he just came from decking Joe Louis and beating Nova despite being 3 to 1 underdog. Tony had a bigger punch and was supremely more durable than Sharkey, Corbett and Fitz also a hell of alot bigger.

As for your third point based on what footage ive seen (Ruhlin, Sharkey, Johnson) i wouldn't say Jeffries fought from a crouch. He stood straight up, hands by his waist with his legs bent. As for Uzcudun i wouldn't call Jeffries as durable as him, Uzcudun was seriously Chuvalo-esque and was only taken out once by none other than the Brown Bomber.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:39 AM   #54
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

Max Baer didn't even turn up for the fight with Braddock.

He wasn't even in the building. My bet would be that he was back in Hollywood somewhere, getting laid with some fine young starlet.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:17 AM   #55
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"Baer likely fought the overall tougher competition"

But he lost to a lot of them. Jeffries retired undefeated and only lost in his comeback fight.
Jeffries was certainly more consistant, but he only had a total of 23 fights ,whilst Baer had 80.
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Last edited by mcvey; 03-08-2012 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:44 AM   #56
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
You are no authority on film. There is a clip of Jeffreis ducking a helicaiuos hook from Tom Sharkey. There is also film of Jeffries sparring where he shows quick feet and head movement. Plenty of news reads describe Jeffries ducking or slipping punches. Your either illiterate, or purposely deceitful on this topic.
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A total of 23 fights , a cauliflower left ear, nose broken at least 3 times.
= defensive genius.

This guy had around 80 fights and was unmarked when he retired.

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That's defence.

ps Jeffries not Jeffreis[illiterate?]
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:50 AM   #57
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
I think Baer might well have been the bigger puncher,

but what is the actual evidence that Baer had the better chin? Jeffries was never off his feet until he was 35 and it took Johnson 15 rounds to wear him down. Other than Louis, who creamed him, I am not certain whom Baer fought who would rate as a better puncher than those Jeffries fought.
Baer fought more punchers than Jeffries who were siginificantly bigger than the ones Jeffries faced, majority being in their prime as opposed to 37 years old and he fought them more consistently. The only man above 200 pounds that Jeffries fought KO'd him with ease and he wasn't a big puncher either. Johnson didnt "wear" Jeffries down he toyed with him and the first real shots Johnson landed took him out. The only 'punchers' Jeffries faced was Fitz who was old as dirt adn 30+ lbs less, Choynski who was 60lbs less and Sharkey who was 30lbs less. I rate Schmeling, Carnera, Galento, Louis adn Nova as bigger punchers than all of them. The first 3 didn't have Baer in any trouble at all, Baer quit against Louis and in the first Nova bout he hit Baer with everything he had for 11 rounds and couldn't put him down. I've never heard anyone rate Jeffries as having the superior chin.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:02 AM   #58
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"Braddock was more dangerous than anybody Jeffries faced"

This is sort of a circular argument. Braddock moved out of the "bum of the month club" class by beating Baer. Nothing else in his career record marks him as anything more than an ordinary contender.

I don't see considering Braddock more dangerous than the triple champion Fitzsimmons or Corbett, regardless of age.

"I'd seriously favour Galento over all the opponents Jeffries beat in the condition he faced them."

You mean the fat, aging, slipping Galento that Baer fought? I wouldn't put much money on him over the Corbett of 1900 or the Fitz of 1899. I wouldn't favor him over Sharkey either. Sharkey was in much better condition.

You say Jeff had no defense, but we have very little film other than the Johnson fight. I think it noteworthy Jeff fought out of crouch, which would help negate Baer's overhand right. Baer went 20 with the crouching Uzcudun and lost. It certainly seems reasonable that the much better Jeffries could match Uzcudun.
Ed,

Maxie is a new poster and it appears he is here for comedy. He might even be an alternate pen name for another poster.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:10 AM   #59
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Ed,

Maxie is a new poster and it appears he is here for comedy. He might even be an alternate pen name for another poster.
Dr Z?
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:17 AM   #60
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Default Re: "Jim J. Jeffries vs. Max Baer" (Heavyweight Title Dream Fight.) Who is the man?

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
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A total of 23 fights , a cauliflower left ear, nose broken at least 3 times.
= defensive genius.

This guy had around 80 fights and was unmarked when he retired.


That's defence.

ps Jeffries not Jeffreis[illiterate?]
Cauilflower ear? Wrong fight dolt.

Jeffries had 125 exhibition matches, and likely quite a few matches happened that were not reported in the press. Jeffries, unlike Johnson was not afraid to mix it, fought better punchers ( No a teenage Mcvey, a 156 pound Langford and a novice 160-165 pound Jeannette were not in Fitz's or Sharkey's class as a punchers ).

There is no doubt who fought better opposition as champion. In addition Jeffries never stopped early as Johnson was, never was floored by super middle weights, nor did he quit in the ring as Johnson did...TWICE. Jeffries never fouled out for going low either as Johnson did. In fact there is reference for Johnson tossing them low in another fight
Damage control time for you again!

"Enraged by Johnson's insulting patter and left-hook to the belly, Ferguson took advantage of a bearhug by Johnson to drive his knee twice into his opponent's groin. Ferguson had taken the first two rounds, round three was even, but Johnson began driving home a wicked left hook to the stomach to take the fifth and sixth, and one or two may have strayed. "
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