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Old 05-05-2011, 03:34 PM   #31
bodhi
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

Hm, well depends who you ask. I think he is a lock for the Top15 at hw. I have him at 7. Is that overrating him? Perhaps. He doesn´t have many wins over big names and the one he does have was past it - Holmes. But he cleaned out the division in his 80s. Had a decent reign, longevity afterwards, was dominant and the second youngest hw champ ever. Enough to rank him that high IMO.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Who is Tyson best win against? Then compare it to some of Lewis's best wins, Holyfields or even Bowe's. Does beating Razor Ruddock, a 38-year old Holmes or Spinks compare to:

Lewis beating: Evander or Vitali
Holyfield beating: Bowe (1)
Bowe beating: Holyfield (2)

The 3 guys above all have superior "best" wins that Tyson and Tyson lost to the two of them he fought. Look, Tyson was the youngest HW champ in history for that I give him huge credit (and rightfully so) but he does not have the resume of a top 10 HW no matter how it is spun.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by 1_man_army View Post
Who is Tyson best win against? Then compare it to some of Lewis's best wins, Holyfields or even Bowe's. Does beating Razor Ruddock, a 38-year old Holmes or Spinks compare to:

Lewis beating: Evander or Vitali
Holyfield beating: Bowe (1)
Bowe beating: Holyfield (2)

The 3 guys above all have superior "best" wins that Tyson and Tyson lost to the two of them he fought. Look, Tyson was the youngest HW champ in history for that I give him huge credit (and rightfully so) but he does not have the resume of a top 10 HW no matter how it is spun.
Why is Lennox's win in he which struggled with a 37 year Holyfield, being listed as one of the best wins
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:29 PM   #34
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by 1_man_army View Post
Who is Tyson best win against? Then compare it to some of Lewis's best wins, Holyfields or even Bowe's. Does beating Razor Ruddock, a 38-year old Holmes or Spinks compare to:

Lewis beating: Evander or Vitali
Holyfield beating: Bowe (1)
Bowe beating: Holyfield (2)

The 3 guys above all have superior "best" wins that Tyson and Tyson lost to the two of them he fought. Look, Tyson was the youngest HW champ in history for that I give him huge credit (and rightfully so) but he does not have the resume of a top 10 HW no matter how it is spun.
Tyson beat the following champs/ex-champs

Trevor Berbick
Bonecrusher Smith
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tucker
Larry Holmes
Tony Tubbs
Mike Spinks
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon
Francois Botha

He had as destructive a run towards the title as any champ who ever lived, better than Dempsey, as good as Liston.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Tyson beat the following champs/ex-champs

Trevor Berbick
Bonecrusher Smith
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tucker
Larry Holmes
Tony Tubbs
Mike Spinks
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon
Francois Botha

He had as destructive a run towards the title as any champ who ever lived, better than Dempsey, as good as Liston.
And there was Brian Nielsen, who held the IBO title !
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:48 PM   #36
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by sugarsean View Post
Why is Lennox's win in he which struggled with a 37 year Holyfield, being listed as one of the best wins
I was going by quality of opponent and the point was furthered when you consider that Tyson lost to Evander twice. Admittedly not the best choice but you see where I was going with it.
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:53 PM   #37
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by 1_man_army View Post
I was going by quality of opponent and the point was furthered when you consider that Tyson lost to Evander twice.
no it wasn't, Holyfield was 34 when he beat Mike not 37.

Last edited by sugarsean; 05-05-2011 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:04 PM   #38
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

Bayless was a sports wirter for the Dallas Morning News...and a radio show host for one of the first All-Sports radio stations in Dallas.....about 25 years ago.

He was always making outrageous statements just to be "controversial".

He finally left town and nobody has really missed him since.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:46 PM   #39
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1_man_army View Post
Who is Tyson best win against? Then compare it to some of Lewis's best wins, Holyfields or even Bowe's. Does beating Razor Ruddock, a 38-year old Holmes or Spinks compare to:

Lewis beating: Evander or Vitali
Holyfield beating: Bowe (1)
Bowe beating: Holyfield (2)

The 3 guys above all have superior "best" wins that Tyson and Tyson lost to the two of them he fought. Look, Tyson was the youngest HW champ in history for that I give him huge credit (and rightfully so) but he does not have the resume of a top 10 HW no matter how it is spun.
So I guess we can add John Ruiz to the list because he beat Evander right around the time Lewis did too.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:47 PM   #40
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by Longhhorn71 View Post
Bayless was a sports wirter for the Dallas Morning News...and a radio show host for one of the first All-Sports radio stations in Dallas.....about 25 years ago.

He was always making outrageous statements just to be "controversial".

He finally left town and nobody has really missed him since.
He's an annoying prick, though his brother is a great food writer/chef.
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:01 AM   #41
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by silenc View Post
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I don't agree with Atlas a fight begins when there is resistance. If Tyson knocks out a great fighter in one round it shows he is great. Whether a fighter takes resistance is one aspect. But if Julian Jackson can knock out Terry Norris in 2 rounds and not take punches in return, how does that make Julian less great. I am not sure I get what Atlas is saying. The fighter is only great if he can take punches and then come back? Then Foreman against Ali would not have been seen as great regardless of beating Frazier or Norton.
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:03 AM   #42
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Tyson beat the following champs/ex-champs

Trevor Berbick
Bonecrusher Smith
Pinklon Thomas
Tony Tucker
Larry Holmes
Tony Tubbs
Mike Spinks
Frank Bruno
Bruce Seldon
Francois Botha

He had as destructive a run towards the title as any champ who ever lived, better than Dempsey, as good as Liston.
and that list of guys Tyson beat were the top guys and champs on the 1980s and I put Tyson in the top 10 probably near 7 or 8.. Atlas is being unfair to Mike. Mike's win over Holmes was great since no one since then demolished Holmes like that even ten years later
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by SonnyListonsJab View Post
I've been getting to know you these past few weeks and you seem just as bias as those men you speak about. Tyson's most memorable fights are clearly Michael Spinks, Evander Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis. Only one of them which were in his prime(which he won). The Spinks fight was a super-fight, a unification between two undefeated champions. Both fighters made around 20 million. Tyson deserves much more credit for this victory.
I will say this that Spinks fight made no sense at all. I was sure spinks could go some rounds and land the right hand and maybe stop Mike. Mike never fought Witherspoon did he? That guy would have been tough.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:23 AM   #44
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by CassiusClayAli View Post
and that list of guys Tyson beat were the top guys and champs on the 1980s and I put Tyson in the top 10 probably near 7 or 8.. Atlas is being unfair to Mike. Mike's win over Holmes was great since no one since then demolished Holmes like that even ten years later
A voice of reason in a wilderness of morons.

Mike is being criminally under-rated by those who have no perspective on the sport. His greatest crime was an intermittent and growing disinterest in the sport and trying to drag a style meant for short-term success into a decade-plus career. However, what he accomplished during his prime years was astounding and with little corollary in this history of the division.
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:27 AM   #45
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Default Re: did you guys see Teddy Atlas with Skip Bayless saying Mike was overrated?

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Originally Posted by CassiusClayAli View Post
I will say this that Spinks fight made no sense at all. I was sure spinks could go some rounds and land the right hand and maybe stop Mike. Mike never fought Witherspoon did he? That guy would have been tough.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I054QXn1xS8[/ame]

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